Should Pagans organize to protect themselves from hate speech?

[pezsez1]

Hey all, I'm a first-time poster on these boards. Mainly, I need to discuss (or maybe I just need to hear feedback) something I learned about today, and this seems like a good place to do it. I can't post links, so follow these instructions: Go to Youtube, and search for "Kathy Lee" (spelled wrong, I know) and "Pagans." Watch the first video that pops up. In this vid, Kathie Lee Gifford on the Today Show makes some very questionable comments about Pagans. As a Pagan myself, things like this really hit home. I don't need to explain here all the details of our peaceful, earth-centered beliefs. But, it seems like many Americans still think of us as devil-worshiping, dirty heathens -- in other words, they know absolutely nothing about Paganism, other than what people like Kathie Lee tell them. Will this ever change? Since Kathie Lee made these comments a few days ago, NBC has not even acknowledged the incident. Unlike the infamous Don Imus incident, the national media has had no reason to pay attention to Lee's remarks. The Pagan community doesn't have outspoken leaders to bring this to the forefront of the public eye. The views of Pagans aren't well represented in newsrooms. And, even if the entire Pagan community was in an uproar, it's hard to be heard when the general Christian population -- the majority of Americans -- doesn't care. I think NBC should apologize. I think Kathie Lee should, too. But, I know they won't, largely because they don't think they said anything offensive. My question to everyone here is... given the leaderless nature of the Neo-Pagan community, and the lack of organization within... will this EVER change? And, more importantly.... SHOULD it change? As a Pagan, I love it that there's no rock-hard hierarchy that rules my beliefs. Times like this, though, make me wish we had more of a foothold in American life. Anyway, I'd love to hear your feedback...

[Gentoo]

How could it? Paganism is so broad a subject that it's hard to find two people who agree on things, let alone agree on a single leader.

[Sonic247]

I'd hate to say this because it is good advice for pagan religion, which obviously I'm against (no offence). I think a general principle of all humanity is that freedom is good. If there was a hierarchy at all and it was succesful and influential it would become more "rock-hard" as you put it. That's just human nature. It would attract people looking for power and money like any religion. Religion and society can go their seperate ways. Christianity exploded in the first century although it was against the law and leaders were executed. I think that the freedom we have, or have the oppurtunity to have in America is a great thing. People are free to orginize if they wish, and whether they realize it or not, free to leave an orginization. I just personally think that if you saw it more orginized you may not like what you see.

[Zephyr]

Good luck organizing Pagans for anything really. We're way too varied. I mean, hell, take me and almost any other Pagan on the board and you'd likely find far more differences than similarities.

[gnomon]

YouTube - Kathy Lee Gifford

Here's the link.

Now that I found the link and watched it........

oh look...a shiny object...

[Mike182]

lol Zephyr, that's the truth!

no, Pagans won't band together for a large "promote Paganism" band wagon, we would never agree on what to promote and what to leave out of the promotion, because we all have different values.

[Riverwolf]

I agree with Sonic, if Pagans somehow organized into some sort of power, it wouldn't be any different than other extremist groups bashing others. That kind of thing is against general(I stress general) Pagan creedo, anyway.

So far, no one has raised a hand to hurt us or outlaw us, so I see no reason to do anything. Sticks and stones, remember?

Besides, being a "pagan" can mean literally anything. It's not really the name of a religion, but a term to describe pre-Christian religions, Wiccans, Goddess-worshippers, polytheists, and too many others to list. I consider myself to be a Neo-pagan, but I can guarantee that no one else has my belief system, which I myself created based on various other Pagan and non-Pagan religions.

..."Pagan" really doesn't have a set definition except in the dictionary, does it?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

..."Pagan" really doesn't have a set definition except in the dictionary, does it?

Even that's subject to question.

[Zephyr]

Originally Posted by Mike182

lol Zephyr, that's the truth!

I'll go one further. Even if you break us into smaller groups you can get the same things. For instance, as a folkish Asatruar, I disagree with Universalist Asatruar far more often than I agree. We're just too damn varied.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I'll go one further. Even if you break us into smaller groups you can get the same things. For instance, as a folkish Asatruar, I disagree with Universalist Asatruar far more often than I agree. We're just too damn varied.

if you can get two Discordians to agree on the majority of their Religions opinions, surely the universe will implode.

on the other hand of course, groups like the Golden Dawn and the OTO manage to keep a hierarchy and order, but by their nature that makes sense and they wouldn't work if they were not in that order.



Sonic, i have to ask, why did you have the need to mention you are opposed to our various Religions? why the need to bring negative feelings into a thread about our religions? it is most certainly not welcomed or wanted.