Heavenly Mother in Bible

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by idea

wow, sorry did not mean to start that.... Anyways, just thoughts, not doctrine. I should not read so much Jewish stuff I guess, now I can’t read the scriptures without thinking of additional parts of the story, and other symbolic things. I did not mean to start a fight, sorry.

You didn't start anything, idea. Your comments are really pretty interesting. I'm not sure where you live, but if it's anywhere near Salt Lake City (I'm guessing that might be what you mean by "Zion") and ever have the opportunity to hear Daniel Rona speak, PLEASE take advantage of it. He did a Sedar dinner at my ward once and tied the teachings of Judaism to the teachings of the Church. He was born and raised Jewish and converted to Mormonism. I have never in my life heard anything so fascinating.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by idea

wow, sorry did not mean to start that....

I was thinking... I will come back to find a link, but the tree of life is symbolic of Her. (mother gets preg, gives life, etc.) Perhaps in the garden of Eden, when we were separated from the tree of life... it was a separation from Her...

I find the symbolism fascinating though. A wooden pole/rod/staff is often used in Jewish tradition to symbolize her. Not an idol, it is not an idol if you do not worship it…

Anyways, thinking about the symbolism behind a shepherd and his staff. The staff is the shepherds constant companion, his support. The staff aids him in finding lost sheep (the curved top used to hook around their neck and drag them back in) the staff is even used to fight off predators. The staff that was used to part the red sea, it was given to Moses as his strength, gave him confidence to go before Pharaoh. The staff that was used to save them from the biting snakes.

Anyways, just thoughts, not doctrine. I should not read so much Jewish stuff I guess, now I can’t read the scriptures without thinking of additional parts of the story, and other symbolic things. I did not mean to start a fight, sorry.

the dream...
8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.
9 And it came to pass after I had seen the tree, I said unto the Spirit: I behold thou hast shown unto me the tree which is precious above all.

... Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw?
22 And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the cmost desirable above all things.
23 And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most joyous to the soul.

there are multiple meanings... not what, but who is the love of God? Heavenly Mother is who God's loves - She is His wife, She is perhaps the love of God.

notice the "wisdom" association again. There is another tree... the tree of knowlege of good and evil. Do you think that tree was symbolic too? We are told the trees are symbolic - what do you think symbolic of?


any thoughts?

Really good post by the way, frubals.
I want to contemplate this for a bit. I really enjoyed reading your post.... now i want to find the meaning of the Tree of Good and evil

[idea]

I think you were both upset at a person of your own imagination, not an actual person, only who you imagine them to be…. Peace and union for the Sabbath? For in Jewish tradition, the Sabbath is God’s wedding celebration.

The Secret of Sabbath (from Kabbalah)

The Secret of Sabbath: she is Sabbath.
United in the secret of one
To draw upon her the secret of one.

From : Kabbalah & Joseph Smith
read the end of this article... starting with

…in order to bring about the union of the "King" and "Queen," and to
cause new souls to be generated for their offspring....

recall – the two cherubim placed to guard the tree of life in the garden of Eden… Do you recall another place where there are two cherubim guarding something?

...then the two cherubim who stand guard over the Ark of the Covenant (of the heart) "are united in the presence of the One, in Whom the soul recognizes its eternal life and its own union with Him. Henceforward the soul is called the eternally 'living' (hayah), the 'one and only' (yehidah),"845 the perfect. The Light has come like veritable tongues of fire upon all who reach the centre of the temple find there the seat of God in the heart of His Creaation.846

I was afraid to read the Kabbalah, I finally broke down and got a book. It is interesting. Do a search for Kabbalah and the secret of the Sabbath, or true meaning of Sabbath. Interesting stuff

(PS - I am not from Utah I come from a different Zion - an actual place called Zion, although they would not let us name our branch "The Zion Branch" for some reason

Blessings!

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by idea

I think you were both upset at a person of your own imagination, not an actual person, only who you imagine them to be…. Peace and union for the Sabbath? For in Jewish tradition, the Sabbath is God’s wedding celebration.

The Secret of Sabbath (from Kabbalah)

The Secret of Sabbath: she is Sabbath.
United in the secret of one
To draw upon her the secret of one.

From : Kabbalah & Joseph Smith
read the end of this article... starting with

…in order to bring about the union of the "King" and "Queen," and to
cause new souls to be generated for their offspring....

recall – the two cherubim placed to guard the tree of life in the garden of Eden… Do you recall another place where there are two cherubim guarding something?

...then the two cherubim who stand guard over the Ark of the Covenant (of the heart) "are united in the presence of the One, in Whom the soul recognizes its eternal life and its own union with Him. Henceforward the soul is called the eternally 'living' (hayah), the 'one and only' (yehidah),"845 the perfect. The Light has come like veritable tongues of fire upon all who reach the centre of the temple find there the seat of God in the heart of His Creaation.846

I was afraid to read the Kabbalah, I finally broke down and got a book. It is interesting. Do a search for Kabbalah and the secret of the Sabbath, or true meaning of Sabbath. Interesting stuff

(PS - I am not from Utah I come from a different Zion - an actual place called Zion, although they would not let us name our branch "The Zion Branch" for some reason

Blessings!

I don't believe there is anythign wrong with reading jewish litterature as long as it builds your testimony and does not tear it down.

There is ALOT of similarities between jewish symbolism and lds symbolism. there was a seminar earloer last month on that particular subject.

If you think about it though, our faith carries on from Christ's Birth and resurrection. the jewish faith stops there. so things before then (old testament, Torah times) are very possibly going to help strengthen your own testimony.

[Muffled]

There is never a reference in the Bible of God as mother. There is a passage where God says He cares for us like amother hen cares for her chicks.

I think a person who needs a mother God has masculine authority problems as Eve did when she disobeyed Adam and ate the apple.

If you have problems with gender identification be a male in your next life and cope with the responsibility of being directly accountable to God.

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please refrain from personal comments and stay on topic. Some off-topic posts have been removed.

Thanks,
A_E

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Muffled

There is never a reference in the Bible of God as mother. There is a passage where God says He cares for us like amother hen cares for her chicks.

I think a person who needs a mother God has masculine authority problems as Eve did when she disobeyed Adam and ate the apple.

If you have problems with gender identification be a male in your next life and cope with the responsibility of being directly accountable to God.

Muffled, I don't think this is what Idea was saying. It's perfectly natural to yearn for a mother, even with a wonderful father.

You are right about no Mother in Heaven mentioned in the Bible. This is LDS doctrine, as revealed by modern day prophets. That's not the issue here.

This thread probably belongs in the LDS DIR forum.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

You didn't start anything, idea. Your comments are really pretty interesting. I'm not sure where you live, but if it's anywhere near Salt Lake City (I'm guessing that might be what you mean by "Zion") and ever have the opportunity to hear Daniel Rona speak, PLEASE take advantage of it. He did a Sedar dinner at my ward once and tied the teachings of Judaism to the teachings of the Church. He was born and raised Jewish and converted to Mormonism. I have never in my life heard anything so fascinating.

This does sound fascinating.

Our bishop was born and raised Jewish and did a Sedar dinner for us. I have a lot of respect for Jewish traditions. Sorry, off-topic.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Muffled

There is never a reference in the Bible of God as mother. There is a passage where God says He cares for us like amother hen cares for her chicks.

I think a person who needs a mother God has masculine authority problems as Eve did when she disobeyed Adam and ate the apple.

If you have problems with gender identification be a male in your next life and cope with the responsibility of being directly accountable to God.

Why does a god need gender at all? Gender implies reproductive capabilities.