Is the theist's problem that they don't know what reality is? (beliefs, bible)

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

Reality and our view of reality are two different things.

Do you then admit that your view of reality might not be reality? Is it not then hypocritical to charge those who do not share your view with failing to understand reality?

[ChristineES]

But honestly, how can we know what is actually real? People have hallucinations, with all five senses. I mean I "know" I am here, typing this on my computer keyboard, but is it really there or am I insane and imagining all this (or maybe not insane, just lonely)
I am very certain all this is real, but there is always a small margin of doubt involved, deep down.

[Jeremiah]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

But honestly, how can we know what is actually real? People have hallucinations, with all five senses. I mean I "know" I am here, typing this on my computer keyboard, but is it really there or am I insane and imagining all this (or maybe not insane, just lonely)
I am very certain all this is real, but there is always a small margin of doubt involved, deep down.

That's is what is know as radical skepticism. Take The Five Minute Hypothesis

"The entire universe sprang into existence from nothing five minutes ago, exactly as it then was, apparent fossils in the ground, wrinkles on people's faces, and other signs of age all instantly formed and thoroughly deceptive."

Can we prove this hypothesis as false? No. However that alone for me is not convincing enough reason to believe it is true.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

Can we prove this hypothesis as false? No. However that alone for me is not convincing enough reason to believe it is true.

The best explanation of this that I have found is as follows:

There is a "widespread sense that skeptical arguments are successful in showing that we rarely or never have beliefs that are certain ... but do not succeed in showing that our beliefs are altogether without epistemic worth"

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/certainty/

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

Reality and our view of reality are two different things.

That is true, and in addition I had said: Our take on reality is not reality. I do believe, however, that it accurately reflects reality. If it doesn't, then nothing does.

[crystalonyx]

Originally Posted by Willamena

That is true, and in addition I had said: Our take on reality is not reality. I do believe, however, that it accurately reflects reality. If it doesn't, then nothing does.

I don't believe this statement really makes sense, in reality.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

I don't believe this statement really makes sense, in reality.

I have no response to that: that's your take.

Edit: My language doesn't do the idea justice, as the take itself is real; sorry. This is why I tend to avoid discussions about reality. I don't have the words.

[Jeremiah]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

I don't believe this statement really makes sense, in reality.

We all have a worldview. The way in which we perceive and interpret the reality. However this worldview is just our perception and our interpretation of the rest of reality. It is a kind of clone of the things around us. They are two different things, worldview and reality. However we can only study reality through our worldview without it we can not perceive or conceptualize reality. Anything we can not perceive or conceptualize is unfathomable, irrelevant and might as well not exist in respect to our lives.

I believe that is what Willamena was saying she can correct me if I misunderstood her.


The point in radical skepticism is as I understand to cause us to pause and rethink what we think we know. I don't believe it is to be taken seriously as a possible truth.