Were the Jews ever slaves? (moral, Moses, exodus, bible)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Somkid

I'm just asking a simple question I have no agenda. I was asked by a student and I wanted to hear some other opinions to be fair in my answer as I always try to be and give more than one view or opinion.

I wasn't accusing you of having an agenda. I was saying that in order to claim that the Egyptians have no records of the Jews as slaves, you have to investigate every group of people that the Egyptians DID keep as slaves and then rule out the possibility that they were the Jews. It's not going to be as straight-forward as their records having the word "Jews" in them.

[3.14]

they were and still are slaves to there religion,
almost every race has been enslaved partialy
slaves used to get stuff done, now its just a good way to influence people

[logician]

Well, if you consider concentration camps a form of slavery, yes.

[tomspug]

Why would the Egyptians keep records of their slaves? I'm sure that the Israelites weren't the only ones. Most ancient empires were known to alter their historical documents to make them look superior to other nations. So contradictions between the histories of different countries is not uncommon.

By the way, the term "jew" comes from Judaism, which is named after the formation of Judah, which was not until after the Exodus (although the 'tribe' of Judah already existed).

Here's my thought. If the Israelites, weren't in Egypt, why make it up??? Why would the Torah say that Jacob (Israel) moved to Egypt because of a famine, his people eventually becoming prisoners and slaves of the country? Not only that, but why make Moses born into Egyptian royalty? If the whole thing is fake, why wouldn't there just have been a massive Israelite rebellion?

According to Exodus, the Israelites took an embarrassing 40 years to make a trip that should have taken a couple of months. Why make that up? In fact, why did it describe Moses as disobeying God and not being able to enter the promised land? If this is supposed to be an inspiring, made up story, it's not a very good one.

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by tomspug

According to Exodus, the Israelites took an embarrassing 40 years to make a trip that should have taken a couple of months. Why make that up? In fact, why did it describe Moses as disobeying God and not being able to enter the promised land? If this is supposed to be an inspiring, made up story, it's not a very good one.

True, but allegory is often exaggerated to make a point. Most of us spend embarrassingly huge amounts of time in a spiritual wilderness ourselves - with our focus away from where it should be. Our own flaws can keep us from getting where we need to go as well.

[Autodidact]

Somkid: My understanding from my reading is that the current view is that it is most likely that the Jews were never slaves in Egypt. Speaking as a Jew who has celebrated Passover for decades, this came as a shock to me, and caused quite a revision in my world view.

[EtuMalku]

Originally Posted by Sola'lor

No, they did not have the Law of Moses yet.

I don't think you guys are hearing Sola'lor . . . there were no Jews yet! They were Israelites, no Judaic religion was around until Moses split and took a bunch of people with him on his Messiahic quest to reinvent the Egyptian religion.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by EtuMalku

I don't think you guys are hearing Sola'lor . . . there were no Jews yet! They were Israelites, no Judaic religion was around until Moses split and took a bunch of people with him on his Messiahic quest to reinvent the Egyptian religion.

Click <= the sound of the light bulb suddenly illuminating.

Whoa.

The BIRTH of a religion then? No wonder the Egyptians had no clue and no record. They were just another nomadic clan they enslaved.

But then, how do we explain the dearth of Egyptian references to those plagues??? That does not make sense.