Surah 4:157 Did Jesus die? (Jesus Christ, Messiah, crucifixion, soul, translation)

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Muffled

What is your point? Are you saying that when the Qu'ran calls Christians and Jews people of the book that He didn't know what book he was talking about and you aren't able to figure it out either?

I just think it shows nabab's ignorance of the language and the history behind the Bible:

The name is derived from the Greek expression biblia (the books), which came into use in the early centuries of Christianity to designate the whole sacred volume. In the Latin of the Middle Ages, the neuter plural for Biblia (gen. bibliorum) gradually came to be regarded as a feminine singular noun (biblia, gen. bibliae, in which singular form the word has passed into the languages of the Western world. It means "The Book", by way of eminence, and therefore well sets forth the sacred character of our inspired literature. Its most important equivalents are: "The Divine Library" (Bibliotheca Divina), which was employed by St. Jerome in the fourth century; "the Scriptures", "the Holy Scripture" -- terms which are derived from expressions found in the Bible itself; and "the Old and New Testament", in which collective title, "the Old Testament" designates the sacred books written before the coming of Our Lord, and "the New Testament" denotes the inspired writings composed since the coming of Christ.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Bible

[nawab]

Dear Muffled

In my expirence, all Christans boast about prophecies fulfilled thats very Good, but how about those prophecies not fulfilled about it. There No use boasting about catching thousand little fish how about the whale that got away. The real big fish that got away, that prophecy was not fulfilled.

If Prophecy should be the only criteria for authencity than Nostradamus book should the best book. In the Quran there are prophecies but whatever its mentioned has been fulfilled or yet be fulfilled before judgement day.

The word Quran is mentioned in the original text but the word bible is not in the bible,
he meant Bible which is dreived from the word Biblos (Greek) and which literally means a Book = Bible. Jews beleive in the Hebrew Bible, Christians take oath in the Bible which also means Book, If you mean that by words the reveations are also mentioned in the Quran Like Torah (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injil (Gospel)these revealtions are mentioned in the Quran by name.

Make things easy you find me one mistake from the Quran, I will post one mistake from the Bible everyday on this Thread.

Originally Posted by Muffled

It is not nonsense. If there is an unresolvable contradiction (I don't believe there are any) then the Bible would be the more reliable document because it is full of fulfilled prophesy and the Qu'ran is not.

This raises a question. Would God really have called it a Qu'ran or did those writing down the Qu'ran include that designation because they were going to call the book the Qu'ran?


What is your point? Are you saying that when the Qu'ran calls Christians and Jews people of the book that He didn't know what book he was talking about and you aren't able to figure it out either?

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by nawab

Dear Muffled

In my expirence, all Christans boast about prophecies fulfilled thats very Good, but how about those prophecies not fulfilled about it. There No use boasting about catching thousand little fish how about the whale that got away. The real big fish that got away, that prophecy was not fulfilled.

If Prophecy should be the only criteria for authencity than Nostradamus book should the best book. In the Quran there are prophecies but whatever its mentioned has been fulfilled or yet be fulfilled before judgement day.

The word Quran is mentioned in the original text but the word bible is not in the bible,
he meant Bible which is dreived from the word Biblos (Greek) and which literally means a Book = Bible. Jews beleive in the Hebrew Bible, Christians take oath in the Bible which also means Book, If you mean that by words the reveations are also mentioned in the Quran Like Torah (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injil (Gospel)these revealtions are mentioned in the Quran by name.

Make things easy you find me one mistake from the Quran, I will post one mistake from the Bible everyday on this Thread.

Since Bible means book there are hundreds of references to it. Here is one: Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by nawab

Since I am confused why dont you shower some light to us, Thats what you do when you cant answer something you put spirtuality in it you arguement why do we need Christ to accept us, since he paid our sins that means he already accepted us, Now its a matter of us accepting me, we accept him as a Messiah only but the Christians accept him as a God/Lord Then why would Jesus tell the Christians depart from him, he never knew you, you sinful people, because he is not your lord, he eats broiled fish and honey comb like us, He sleeps, he gets tired, he loses his impatience and gets rational, he was tempted by the Devil for 40 days, He seeked assistance from a higher Authority, submitted his will to a greater decree, God doesnt do that, these are qualities of humans. This is our arguement.

I would be more than happy to point out your confusion. you can't seem to stay on subject. Follow the posts back that I am refering to and you will see (possibly) that you are off topic.

[nawab]

God Almighty will never allow his messenger to be humiliated and to be naked in front of so many people, God almighty will not allow his messenger to be cursed on the cross. If Jesus died than how will he come back.

Martyrs are not dead (you misunderstood the whole. it is talking in a spiritual sense not in phsyical.)Suppose if i am martyerd does that mean i can come back on this earth again. No,

Jesus didnt escaped a trial, he was rescued by God almighty. Jesus had to come bcak his mission was not completed he had to come back and explain to the Christians that he is not divine he is flesh and blood like you and me.

Originally Posted by arthra

Since this is a debate thread.. I'm not sure what can be accomplished by mere debate here but I'll give the Baha'i view that Jesus body was crucified and He was martyred.. but they couldn't obvious kill His Spirit ... They thought they had crucified Him and "killed" His Cause.. that would be an end to it but it obviously wasn't because the Cause of Christ continued.

The Qur'an also says martyrs aren't dead: See Surih 2 verse 154 and Surih 3 verse 169.

There was a lot of speculation among some Muslims about whether a "double" of Christ was crucified..maybe Judas or someone else. But I believe the Son of Man Jesus Christ would have faced His crucifixion and not escaped even if offered to Him.

- Art

[logician]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

That's when he die after his second coming. By then, all the people of the book will believe in him as the verse states. Do Jews today believe in him? no. In his second coming they will.

After 2k years, that dream is dimming.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by nawab

God Almighty will never allow his messenger to be humiliated and to be naked in front of so many people, God almighty will not allow his messenger to be cursed on the cross. If Jesus died than how will he come back.

Martyrs are not dead (you misunderstood the whole. it is talking in a spiritual sense not in phsyical.)Suppose if i am martyerd does that mean i can come back on this earth again. No,

Jesus didnt escaped a trial, he was rescued by God almighty. Jesus had to come bcak his mission was not completed he had to come back and explain to the Christians that he is not divine he is flesh and blood like you and me.

This is tantamount to telling God what He can do and what He can't do. And I believe that it was God in the flesh that was naked and humilited. It not only occurred but it was prophesied that it would happen.

Jesus was resurrected into His eternal life body.

Jesus was not rescued although He stated that He could call 10,000 angels to do so (He would not have to call God for rescue because He was God in the flesh). Jesus never told his disciples that He was not devine and never stated that it was His mission to do so. I don't doubt He will set you straight about things (as the Qu'ran says) when He returns but it is not why He will return.

[nawab]

Allright, he was not divine, tell me where among the 73 books of th roman catholics and the 66 books of the protestants where does it say that he was divine. or where he says worship me. He himself reminded the Jew that the first commandment is your lord is one lord same what was revealed to Moses

First, God came down in Flesh, and then was cursed, Humiliated and naked then crucifed,
Dear brother what mockery are you making out of Jesus and God almighty

since if Jesus PBUH faced death why on earth did he cried Aleh Aleh Lemasabaktani - Ellah Ellah why have thou forsaken me. Why if Jesus face death so manly why did he cry. Suppose i am about to be hanged and i cry the same thing will the executioner think that i am a God crying to myself why have i forsaken myself.

imagine God in a flesh cries to himself that why have thou forsaken me.

I will share another incident with you remember Jesus when he cursed the Fig tree because he was hungry can you imagine a hungry God, Why did Jesus Cursed the Fig tree because the season of the figs was not yet. Jesus had no right at all to cursed the tree because Jesus was hungry, Because his father almighty made the tree that way, in a season it will bear fruit in other seasons it wont. Jesus being rational, Gods dont do that even sane people dont do that.

My whole arguement is that God doesnt gets hungry he feeds everything and he is not fed. You Christians give me the bible and say that it is the word of God but unfortunately your teachings go agaisnt the bible.