Surah 4:157 Did Jesus die? (Jesus Christ, Messiah, crucifixion, soul, translation)

[sandy whitelinger]

This came up in another thread and has probably come up before.

First the reference:
The Authorized English Translation of the Quran,Qur'an, Koran- Sura - 4 , Women (Al-Nesaa'), translated from the original by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D.
Surah verse 4:157:
"And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him."

The post from the other thread used verse 157 to say the Koran said Jesus didn't die. I look at it and see that the Koran says the Jews believe they crucified Jesus but they (the Jews) did not. It seems clear to me though that verse 4:159 that He did die. "Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them."

[TashaN]

That's when he die after his second coming. By then, all the people of the book will believe in him as the verse states. Do Jews today believe in him? no. In his second coming they will.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

That's when he die after his second coming. By then, all the people of the book will believe in him as the verse states. Do Jews today believe in him? no. In his second coming they will.

And where are the verses for that?

[not4me]

From the Verse 4:157 it's not clear whether Jesus's soul and body were raised or his soul only but the most important, the Qur'an made it clear that he was not crucified or killed.

[arthra]

Since this is a debate thread.. I'm not sure what can be accomplished by mere debate here but I'll give the Baha'i view that Jesus body was crucified and He was martyred.. but they couldn't obvious kill His Spirit ... They thought they had crucified Him and "killed" His Cause.. that would be an end to it but it obviously wasn't because the Cause of Christ continued.

The Qur'an also says martyrs aren't dead: See Surih 2 verse 154 and Surih 3 verse 169.

There was a lot of speculation among some Muslims about whether a "double" of Christ was crucified..maybe Judas or someone else. But I believe the Son of Man Jesus Christ would have faced His crucifixion and not escaped even if offered to Him.

- Art

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

And where are the verses for that?

I'll get you a better translation, because the one you quoted doesn't feel accurate to me because i know the arabic one.

[159] And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them. (Quran 4:159)

This is something which will happen in the future, but not something which already happened in the past.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by not4me

From the Verse 4:157 it's not clear whether Jesus's soul and body were raised or his soul only but the most important, the Qur'an made it clear that he was not crucified or killed.

No, it made it clear that the Jews did not kill him.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

It seems clear to me though that verse 4:159 that He did die. "Everyone among the people of the scripture was required to believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness against them."

Do you really think that this commentary, written by a man some 600 years after the fact, has ANYTHING at all to offer about what happend to Jesus?

Just wondering... thanks.
S

[Muffled]

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