Surah 4:157 Did Jesus die? (Jesus Christ, Messiah, crucifixion, soul, translation)

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

That's when he die after his second coming. By then, all the people of the book will believe in him as the verse states. Do Jews today believe in him? no. In his second coming they will.

There was a thread several months ago that petered out after a long debate.

No. He didn't die he left and then the body died. From the perspective of the apostle John (He was the only eyewitness) He died. From God's perspective He left. It is God's perspective that you find in the Qu'ran although the supporting evidence is in the Bible.

v159 says that Christians and Jews must believe in Jesus before they die.

Jesus does not die at the second coming or thereafter.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

I'll get you a better translation, because the one you quoted doesn't feel accurate to me because i know the arabic one.

[159] And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them. (Quran 4:159)

This is something which will happen in the future, but not something which already happened in the past.

I see the Koran has the same problem for some that the Bible has. Some translators were just too ignorant in their translations to agree with the reader.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Do you really think that this commentary, written by a man some 600 years after the fact, has ANYTHING at all to offer about what happend to Jesus?

Just wondering... thanks.
S

It's because the Christians Muhammed would have encountered in Arabia, and as such the version of Christianity expressed in the Qur'an was Nestorianism.

[nawab]

The way you judge Quran and the Bible should be of same regards, you cant just say that in the Quran says A but the Bible says B, so B is right this nonsense.

You said that the Quran is written by a man 600 years later, when was Mathew, Mark, Luke and John written, they were not eye witnesses. when was King James written, when was the New international version written,

Lets Compare both scriptures to see How God introduces his scriptures in the Quran and the bible

In the Quran Surah rahman 55:1-2 The most gracious, has authoried the Quran

However the word Holy Bible is not in the Holy Bible it is only outside on the cover which is not printed by God but the printers. out of the 73 books of the roman catholics and the 66 books of the protestants the word bible is not in the bible.
your book doesnt even introduces himself to the word of God, on the basis of a Story book of prophets, it is a good book, on the baisis of a history book it can be a good book, as a fiction book, it might be a good book, and pornography, i dont want to comment here.

Originally Posted by Scott1

Do you really think that this commentary, written by a man some 600 years after the fact, has ANYTHING at all to offer about what happend to Jesus?

Just wondering... thanks.
S

[nawab]

I agree with you that Jesus says you must beleive in him before you die thats right, it just depend how you beleive him. thats why on the last day he will come and tell you Christians that you all are sinners, go away,Jesus never knew you.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who does wonderful works in the name of Jesus, not Jews, not Muslims, not hindus but Christians
who cast out devils in the name of Jesus, not Jews, not Muslims, not Hindus, but Christians
who prophesies in the name of Jesus, not Jews, Not Muslims, not Hindus, but Christians

I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN WHY WOULD HE TELL THE CHRISTIANS GET AWAY YOU BUNCH OF SINNERS HE NEVER KNEW YOU.

[nawab]

I challenge you to find something which Muhammd PBUH copied from Chrsitians, dont just talk nonsense you talking without knowledge what did Muhammad copied from Christians beleive in Trinity, Beleieve that Christ paid for your sins, Original sin, 10 cases of incest, embarrasing passages like Exekeil 23, How to rape your own sister Amon and tamar in the 2 Samuels, What did Muhammad pbuh copied or failed to copy

Pls clarify since you have put a false allegation on the quran now you have to prove your point or you will be proven a liar

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I see the Koran has the same problem for some that the Bible has. Some translators were just too ignorant in their translations to agree with the reader.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by nawab

embarrasing passages like Exekeil 23,

That's an allegory that condems Israel for courting the Assyrians for help and to delay conquest, and for adopting foreign religious practices and not staying faithful to YHWH.

How to rape your own sister Amon and tamar in the 2 Samuels,

The rape of Tamar was not being held up as an example of what one is suppose to do.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by nawab

I challenge you to find something which Muhammd PBUH copied from Chrsitians, dont just talk nonsense you talking without knowledge what did Muhammad copied from Christians beleive in Trinity, Beleieve that Christ paid for your sins, Original sin, 10 cases of incest, embarrasing passages like Exekeil 23, How to rape your own sister Amon and tamar in the 2 Samuels, What did Muhammad pbuh copied or failed to copy

Pls clarify since you have put a false allegation on the quran now you have to prove your point or you will be proven a liar

Perhaps you should listen to the teachings of the Quran.

[29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by nawab

The way you judge Quran and the Bible should be of same regards, you cant just say that in the Quran says A but the Bible says B, so B is right this nonsense.

Well... when it comes to history, go with the one written 600 years earlier... pretty safe bet there.

You said that the Quran is written by a man 600 years later, wh