islam (Creator, homosexuality, mission, prophet, pray)

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by outoftime

look at what happens in our society...the majority of people cheat, the divorce rate is 50%+, cheating isn't much different. i'm pretty sure modern muslims don't actually marry four people though.

I don't give a fig about divorce rate, because it has nothing to do with this issue, but I know you are exaggerating with the figures.

The divorce rate may be higher than expected, but it is certainly not as high as you are saying and that the causes (of all these divorces) are DUE TO CHEATING.

Some of it, and quite a bit of it too, have to do with men being physically abusive to their wives, and the only mean of survival is to leave. Or others divorced drifted apart, and the only way to ended is in divorce. There may be other factors involved in divorces, and not all of them have to do with CHEATING.

Did you know that men beat their wives are on the rise? Do you know many women are killed in such marriages? And did you know that a large number of go unreported to the authorities? (Largely because neither the laws or the police can do much.)

What do you want them to do, stayed until they are either disfigured, maimed or they are dead? What do you want them do, pray that husbands don't get drunk, depressed or violent? A lot of good praying do for the victims.

I am afraid that you have too simplistic view on this.

Originally Posted by outoftime

if you can't understand their religion than don't complain about it. seriously...it's not much different from christianity.

Well, if that meant to impress me, well, it don't. I am not any more impress with Christian teachings, customs and traditions than I am with Islam. And some of the Christian rules are archaic too.

The Christian thinking of sticking to a marriage "till death do us apart", while husband can beat a woman half-to-death, is truly barbaric thinking.

Divorce is far better than being physically terrorised by a violently aggressive husband.

[~Amin~]

Originally Posted by gnostic

And if your (1st) wife oppose to you about take other wives?

Would abide by her wish and not marry others?

Do you ignore her and marry other women?

Or do you beat her until she agree with you?

What rights do your 1st wife would have? Does she have a say in the matter or not?

I don't give a crap about your rights to marry more than one woman. I'm far more concern about the women involved in such matters, because as I can see, there are no benefits for the women involved. Islam seemed to be created out of sick fantasy of your so-called prophet, not because of divine will.

Okay, i dont no why your so upset, Ill answer all your inquires in one response,
And let each of you( man and wife) accept the advice of the other in
a just way. Qur'an 65verse6.

And among His Signs is this, that He has created for you wives
from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He
has PUT IN BETWEEN you MERCY and AFFECTION. Verily in that are
Signs for people of Logic.
Qur'an 30v 21.

Verily those(men) who accuse chaste women, who never even think of
touching there chastity and are good believers are CURSED in the
life of this world, and a great TORMENT in hereafter. Qur'an 24, 23.

So you see gnostic, a man must be careful how he treats not just women
but the creation in general, And when he turns away, his effort in the land
is to make miscief therein and to DESTROY the CROPS and the CATTLE, and
God does not LIKE miscief. Qur'an 2, 205.

If Muhammad was a sex maniac as you claim, then why was he a virgin till the
age of 25? and why at that age get married to a 40 yearold? by the way did
you know that two of his wives were 65 years of age when he married them?
Seems like a very decent human to me, were you a virgin before 25? we you
married before your first sexuall relationship? if not we should check our selves first,
Sooo you should calm down a little.

[nawab]

Having sexual desires with your wife/Wives is not cheating, children born out of your wives are not ******** but children who are born of unmarried woman are ******** as mentioned in the Bible. Suppose if i want to have sex with a lady, i marry her and have sex and our children would legitimate not ********, Sex is also a part of married life, maybe for the progressed Christians, they have sex so often they
dont even consider sex as a part of married life, having sex is just like drinking water for them. Or maybe in simple words Christ paid for thier sins so they can have sex before marriage

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Well, given the responses we've been getting...

Oh, I understand it. I know how to accept the delusion. I was a Muslim once too. I have my problems with Christianity too, but those still pale in comparison. At least the vast majority of Christians have at least progressed into modern times...for the most part. As for the cheating thing, sure that's a great reason! Men will cheat, so have them marry the women they would cheat on so it's not cheating anymore!

Yeah, modern society is pretty messed up, but as far as modernity goes, Islam has far more setbacks than advances.

[nawab]

Why do men beat thier wives in your countr, Women are killed in marriage, if you do not mind gnostic tell me which country are you from, Why are women killed

Originally Posted by gnostic

I don't give a fig about divorce rate, because it has nothing to do with this issue, but I know you are exaggerating with the figures.

The divorce rate may be higher than expected, but it is certainly not as high as you are saying and that the causes (of all these divorces) are DUE TO CHEATING.

Some of it, and quite a bit of it too, have to do with men being physically abusive to their wives, and the only mean of survival is to leave. Or others divorced drifted apart, and the only way to ended is in divorce. There may be other factors involved in divorces, and not all of them have to do with CHEATING.

Did you know that men beat their wives are on the rise? Do you know many women are killed in such marriages? And did you know that a large number of go unreported to the authorities? (Largely because neither the laws or the police can do much.)

What do you want them to do, stayed until they are either disfigured, maimed or they are dead? What do you want them do, pray that husbands don't get drunk, depressed or violent? A lot of good praying do for the victims.

I am afraid that you have too simplistic view on this.


Well, if that meant to impress me, well, it don't. I am not any more impress with Christian teachings, customs and traditions than I am with Islam. And some of the Christian rules are archaic too.

The Christian thinking of sticking to a marriage "till death do us apart", while husband can beat a woman half-to-death, is truly barbaric thinking.

Divorce is far better than being physically terrorised by a violently aggressive husband.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

The Quran is the word of God, but the Hadith is the words and deeds of Prophet Mohammed which was also inspired by God.

Not every word that Mohammed spoke was divinely inspired. It is easy to see the difference between the Apostle Paul and Mohammed. The apostle Paul had the Paraclete but Mohammed did not. THe apostle Paul wrote his own words coming from the Paraclete but The Haith is a record of people claiming to have heard Mohammed say something without checking to see whether it was inspired by God or not. Also there is some evidence for people who claimed to have heard a word from Mohammed actually using that device to promote their own thinking. I would n't rule out the possibility that an inspired word might be found in the Hadith but if so I think it is a rare occurrance.

[gnostic]

Paul and Mohammad. Mohammad and Paul.

I don't seemed to have much respect for either one of them. They seemed to have the same trait. Both of them seemed to be humble, but both have the same arrogance in their humbleness.

Does that make sense to you?

Both have violent streak. Paul used to persecute the people which he later became, but never committed violence again. Mohammad, on the other hand, probably never involved in a war in his life, but changed afterward. Even passing sentence to those dare oppose him.

If they lived now, I couldn't trust them.

They also have the same type of experiences - visitations - which the changed the course of their lives, and yet I don't believe in either one of them. They have no evidences of these visitations which they have claimed, and you only have their "words" that they are being honest.

[OutOfTime]

it's funny how people always look for evidence. say if i did give you evidence, not about this but anything, say a conspiracy, you'd still call it a conspiracy.

because in the end, it's faith. 'evidence' LOL

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by outoftime

it's funny how people always look for evidence. say if i did give you evidence, not about this but anything, say a conspiracy, you'd still call it a conspiracy.

because in the end, it's faith. 'evidence' LOL

What do you think evidence is?

Because I think that many of the theistic or religious people understand the meaning and use of the evidence.

Evidences can be true or false, depending on if you prove it or disprove it.

With any evidence, you should be able to test it, observe the result, quantify it, verify it, validate it, certify it, and the list goes on.

Faith is only a trust in belief, and it is not considered as evidence, because such faith can also be misplaced, right? Anyone can believe, but most are not brave enough to investigate further, especially if it challenge their deep-seated belief.

The torah, bible, Qur'an and whatever scripture you may believe, can be considered as literary evidence, but such evidences can only be proven if, and I stressed IF, you can prove it, through testing and validation during the investigation.

Granted, not all evidence lead to being proof, because not all evidences are good; they may be false, faulty or just unreliable. Also I'm just as happy if the evidences are dis-proven as much as proven.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Muffled

Not every word that Mohammed spoke was divinely inspired. It is easy to see the difference between the Apostle Paul and Mohammed. The apostle Paul had the Paraclete but Mohammed did not. THe apostle Paul wrote his own words coming from the Paraclete but The Haith is a record of people claiming to have heard Mohammed say something without checking to see whether it was inspired by God or not. Also there is some evidence for people who claimed to have heard a word from Mohammed actually using that device to promote their own thinking. I would n't rule out the possibility that an inspired word might be found in the Hadith but if so I think it is a rare occurrance.

Hence the Qur'an specifies the best Hadith is the Qur'an Itself.

Regards,
Scott

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Hence the Qur'an specifies the best Hadith is the Qur'an Itself.

Regards,
Scott

I am not familiar with the quote. Do you have the sura and