islam (Creator, homosexuality, mission, prophet, pray)

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Scott1

I didn't like that it seemed like a big "step-back" from the Christian faith is was supposed to "supercede".... in Christ I am the adopted son of God.... the Koran didn't have anything close to that.... too many rules--->not enough love.

Peace be with you,
Scott

It's not rules, but a gift from God, out of his love for us, not that he is not offering us enough love.

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

The trinitarian nature of God, the Sonship of Jesus, the salvation offered by Jesus among other things...

Well, even Christians themselves don't agree about all what you have mentioned.

Originally Posted by kai

i dont get the reasoning , why do you have to bow down and pray five times a day, forget the so called beautiful hadeeth and think for yourself why would Allah want you on your knees five times a day fore the rest of your life?

For me, i wasn't praying all five times a day but just occasinally, because it was meaningless to me. That was long time a go i guess when i was still in high school, i did what i have been taught to do, and i just did what others did. So, it didn't work out for me, because my family knows how stubborn i'm so they were encouraging me from time to another but never ever forced me to pray. After i travelled to malaysia, the first two years was the same to me, but after that i started questioning everything and i started from scratch, and only when i tried it out, and prayed five times a day, i fell in love with it, and God increased my understanding about its importantce to me more and more.

I noticed that, when i miss a prayer, i start getting some thoughts of comitting a sin, and sometimes i fell for it, but when i pray five times a day, i don't feel to do so, and i feel that i'm in a complete peace of mind, and feel very very comfortable. It also allow me to produce more and be active, because the first prayer starts at 6 am here, but before, when i was skipping, i was sleeping so late, because i don't put in mind that i have a prayer to attend, and as a result, i wake up very late at the afternoon.

Sometimes, after i finish my prayer, i look around me and wonder, all types of colors, all types of shapes, nationalities, etc and they vary from rich and poor, all of them, praying, standing next to each other, foot to foot, and shoulder to shoulder. What does God is trying to tell us? What is it? why i'm coming here five times a day?

Why is it so important for him that i go to the MOSQUE five a times a day?
Why he didn't ask us instead to pray 10 times at our home alone?
Why praying 5 times a day is the most important thing in religion?

All these kinds of thoughts comes to me and day after day, Allah inspires me to understand more the purpose of this gathering five times a day. I read about so many facts about the daily prayers, but i'm only conveying to you what i personally experinced, as you have requested, even though that question was directed at not4me, but i'm a muislim too, you know.

Really, kai, i have alot of things to say about it, which i couldn't really value and apperciate, till i tested it myself, because praying five times a day, was a challenge to me, because i used to skip some prayers and sometimes, the day would end without me praying even once. Now, almost, everyday i'm praying five times a day, thank God. Though, i'm still working on it more. I'm getting more sweetness out of it everyday, and my next step would be, to perfect my prayer, to clear all my thoughts completely when i pray, God willing. Prayer is really still mystrious to me, and a hidden power in it which gives me a new meaning for life everyday, to love myself, to love life, and to love people, through the love of Allah.

Now, i know that what i have said doesn't apply to most or any of the muslims, but i answered according to question at hand, which asked for a personal view and experince.

I hope it helped you a little to know more about the affect of the daily prayer on some muslims. I'm sure that every muslim in the forum would tell you a different story about how the prayers affect his/her daily life. We all need it, but there is a common goal after it, and a minor personal goal gained for each one of us from it.

And sorry for the long reply.

Here is a little gift for you:

Did all Prophets including Jesus prayed to God the same as Muslism pray now?

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I definitely have problem with this veneration of prophet. Islam seemed to be much about Muhammad as it is about Allah.

Some would violently attack, if not kill, another person says something about the prophet. Not is only amounts to murder, but it also idol-worshipping.

Seriously, why would any Muslim needs to defend a prophet that have been dead almost 1500 years now?

All it do is prove that the religion is based on violence.

gnostic, people show their love for the prophet, and their anger of trying to insult him, in the way they have been raised in that particular society, and according to the level of their education. Some would insult you back if you insulted the prophet, some might hit you, some might fight, and some would go further to kill you. Some other would reason with you and explain for you why it was offensive. It depends. That's not only because he is the greatest human beings ever who walked on this earth, but also because he is the prophet of Allah. The one who will stand in front of God, in the day of judgement, when all prophets will think of their own survival on that difficult day, he will think of his own followers, his own ummah, who believed in his message even though they didn't see him. He will ask Allah to forgive them, after Allah gives him the permission to do so.

Some people love him too much that they don't care what happen to them for the sake of his love. I myself, love him more than anything in this life, more than my own family, friends, finacee, etc. But i knoe, you will not understand that.

[Zephyr]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

That's the thing. You are comparing God of the universe to mere human beings.

And why shouldn't I? The gods are like humans, but big and better. What exactly makes them so different. They have flaws just like us, they argue just like us, they even kill like us.

Not good for your health.

What, alcohol? I'll tell ya, nothing cures a tummy ache like a shot before bed.

Hmmm, i guess the type of threads RF would tell you that Islam is not the first religion opposing that.

Not the first at all, but that doesn't make it right.

But they are not clean.

In what way? What is it about pigs that makes them so inherently unclean that we can't even wash it away?

They are equal according to what has God given them. For instance, men have to work and support the family and the wife can sue him if he didn't do so. On the other hand, if the wife is working too, the husband won't get a dime out of it, because according to our religion, the wife don't have to pay anything, unless she wants to do so. There are alot of issues where everytime, one of them will be in charge of something which might not apply to the other, because Allah is aware of their own strengths and weaknesses.

Now traditionally, Asatruar will often find themselves chilling with gender roles too, but what good is it to divinely legislate it? Islam may be pretty progressive for the time, but it's way outdated now. I mean, a woman's witness being worth half a man's is great when you compare it to having no power at all, but nowadays it's far behind.

You confused the term Zakat for charity. Zakat is something similar to tax, which is right of the poor people in the country, unlike Sadaqah, which IS charity.

So a poor tax eh? Sounds like a forced charity to me. Then again, I see welfare as the same thing, so this is something we probably won't find common ground on.

Only once in your life, if you can afford it, and have the physical, mental, and financial means to do so.

Doesn't matter. It's still requiring capable people to go to some insignificant place with no real good cause.

Islam is not just something you claim but you have to act on it.

Yeah, which brings me to the biggest problem: submission. The same god who is making all these ridiculous rules is forcing you to bow to him and take it all.

Got lucky? you really think so?

Luck won't bring millions of people on their knees and heads FIVE times a day. Think harder please.

Well, luck and conquest and manipulation can work together pretty well. Just because you get a big following doesn't mean there's anything divine about it.

Waiting for more.

I'll get on it.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by not4me

Maybe for a non-Muslim but for a Muslim the matter is completely different; Allah said in a hadith Qudsi:
"My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him."

How come the prayers and the orders of Allah become anything but very dear works on the heart after reading this beautiful hadeeth and tasting the sweetness of God's love?

God is my creator and my "doctor", He knows what's best for me (and who knows most what's best for me except Who created me; " Should He not know,- He that created?" Qur'an) and thus He ordained it for me, for my happiness, for my success and wealth in this dunya and in akhira.

Love, to be truly love, has to be unconditional. But when Allah says: My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, He is saying I shall not love you unless you follow Islam. This idea is reinforced in the Quran where Allah says, And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85).

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by Zephyr

And why shouldn't I? The gods are like humans, but big and better. What exactly makes them so different. They have flaws just like us, they argue just like us, they even kill like us.

I guess you are not talking about God of the universe, maybe about something else.

What, alcohol? I'll tell ya, nothing cures a tummy ache like a shot before bed.

That's why Allah said:

[219] They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit....." (Quran 2:219)

Not the first at all, but that doesn't make it right.

My point is, if we spent here one month straight we will never end talking about homosexuality and i gave you my proof. Look up the threads in RF.

In what way? What is it about pigs that makes them so inherently unclean that we can't even wash it away?

They live in feed on dirty places and we only eat clean meat, plus that, its meat is not as healthy as others' even if it was delicious as you say. Over all that, Allah said it's not good for us, so he knows better, for he is the one who created our bodies and souls and knows best of what would be good for it and what would be bad. Even if there was no evidence what so ever that something is bad for me, so i'll not eat it if God said so, period.

Now traditionally, Asatruar will often find themselves chilling with gender roles too, but what good is it to divinely legislate it? Islam may be pretty progressive for the time, but it's way outdated now. I mean, a woman's witness being worth half a man's is great when you compare it to having no power at all, but nowadays it's far behind.

That's not the case, a woman would worth half only in few mentioned cases but not in general, and also that can be left to the scholars to decide about, because alot of scholars already mentioned that we should look at any law from the original purpose behind it and why it was revelaed in order to understand the time it was revealed at and see if the same conditions apply or not. There are alot of issues which the scholars could understand within it's context and could be progressive about it, but i can't answer for that in details because i'm not a scholar, unless you want me to google it up for you and copy-paste it.

So a poor tax eh? Sounds like a forced charity to me. Then again, I see welfare as the same thing, so this is something we probably won't find common ground on.

Not sure what you are referring to.

Doesn't matter. It's still requiring capable people to go to some insignificant place with no real good cause.

You should ask about the real "good" cause behind it before dismissing it as causeless, don't you think so?

Yeah, which brings me to the biggest problem: submission. The same god who is making all these ridiculous rules is forcing you to bow to him and take it all.

If a mere human being is arrogant enough to compare himself to God, then he should heal himself, live forever, etc? would he be able to do that?

Well, luck and conquest and manipulation can work together pretty well. Just because you get a big following doesn't mean there's anything divine about it.

You can't be sure about that. If both, the good and evil, right and wrong can gather alot of followers then this point is beyond discussing. You can't say he got lucky because you don't know him, and if you want to know him, read about what he did from good resources, and i'm sure you will take your word back.

I'll get on it.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

Love, to be truly love, has to be unconditional. But when Allah says: My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, He is saying I shall not love you unless you follow Islam. This idea is reinforced in the Quran where Allah says, And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85).

Why would he allow you to enter heaven and your deeds to be accepted if you didn't believe in him on the first place?

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by abu khalid

Why would he allow you to enter heaven and your deeds to be accepted if you didn't believe in him on the first place?

I don't see it any better with believing in him and blowing up innocent people any better. Suicide bombers believed themselves to be devout followers of Islam. These same murderers prayed 5 times a day, just like any Muslim. They believe that killing non-believers to be a guarantee to heaven.

Will they have a place in Allah's paradise on belief alone?

Sorry, but I think belief can be misguided. Belief in Allah can lead to violence and death, and that's a fact. Islam is no better than Christianity. And Christianity is no better than Islam. They all have believers who think we should follow them OR ELSE.

There is something about God, whatever you wants to call him - Allah or Yahweh or Creator or Father - that make people intolerant of any other belief or non-belief.

Abrahamic religions have nothing to do with love and compassion. Surrender means abject slavery and intolerance.

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Abu Khalid

Why would he allow you to enter heaven and your deeds to be accepted if you didn't believe in him on the first place?

Perhaps because we don't have much control over our beliefs. How about you just believe Odin is the chief among many deities, even for a few minutes... I suspect you can't, which shows why belief is a shaky reason for eternal judgment.