islam (Creator, homosexuality, mission, prophet, pray)

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by yousaf

is there any one who after reading the quraan and hadith had a problem with islam, if there are any please explain what you didn't like thanks

yousaf

I've only read the first couple of chapters(I don't remember what they're actually called)of the Qu'ran. But I didn't find anything in there that I didn't like. It seemed pretty reasonable.

[kai]

why is Allah so totalitarian, telling you what to eat , when and how often to pray etc, he very much sounds like an overlord, a celestial dictator. and i have to admire you for starting this thread it could get a little lively

[not4me]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

I'm just not that important.

In Islam, all this universe was created for me as a human being; "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." and every individual has a message, has a role to achieve. This beautiful Qudsi hadith reflects how every soul, every person, every nafs is important, important to Allah: Allah said "I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed."

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

The idea of only one right religion is also suspect. People are different and have different needs. What works for some does not work for others. We all use different framework to relate to our environment. Islam is just one. It works for many people, and that's great. To say, however, that it is or should be the only framework belies a lack of understanding about human nature.

What you think works for you doesn't necessarily mean is the right thing!! The right religion doesn't have anything to do with "what works for you doesn't work for me". "What works for you" doesn't mean that there isn't a creator. "What works for you" doesn't mean there will not be a judgment day...etc. Anyway the Qur'an said that people followed and will follow different paths and those who follow the straight path are the minority. "Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight." Qur'an

In addition, religion is almost entirely cultural. When religions carry a distinct cultural element, that interferes with the "universality" of any message. For example, many ancient gods obviously reflect the warrior culture from which they arose. In a more civilized society, their message does not translate well.

Before the rise of Islam people drank Alcohol, Islam came and forbade Alcohol and anything that veils the mind, where is the cultural part about this?

Another aspect I dislike is that Islam, like most religions, assumes that god would reward or punish us based on what we believe. I don't think we have much control over what we believe. At best, we control the inflow of information, but when it comes to belief, we don't really control it. For example, how about you stop believing in Allah for a few minutes and believe - really believe - that Isis is the chief of all deities. I think you'll find you aren't capable, and this renders all divine judgment of belief alone moot.

You would be right if belief were like a TV set or something when we click the button we switch it on or off or change the channel!!!

and this renders all divine judgment of belief alone moot.

Correction: belief + work

[not4me]

Originally Posted by kai

why is Allah so totalitarian, telling you what to eat , when and how often to pray etc, he very much sounds like an overlord, a celestial dictator. and i have to admire you for starting this thread it could get a little lively

Maybe for a non-Muslim but for a Muslim the matter is completely different; Allah said in a hadith Qudsi:
"My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him."

How come the prayers and the orders of Allah become anything but very dear works on the heart after reading this beautiful hadeeth and tasting the sweetness of God's love?

God is my creator and my "doctor", He knows what's best for me (and who knows most what's best for me except Who created me; " Should He not know,- He that created?" Qur'an) and thus He ordained it for me, for my happiness, for my success and wealth in this dunya and in akhira.

[kai]

Originally Posted by not4me

Maybe for a non-Muslim but for a Muslim the matter is completely different; Allah said in a hadith Qudsi:
"My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him."

How come the prayers and the orders of Allah become anything but very dear works on the heart after reading this beautiful hadeeth and tasting the sweetness of God's love?

God is my creator and my "doctor", He knows what's best for me (and who knows most what's best for me except Who created me; " Should He not know,- He that created?" Qur'an) and thus He ordained it for me, for my happiness, for my success and wealth in this dunya and in akhira.

i dont get the reasoning , why do you have to bow down and pray five times a day, forget the so called beautiful hadeeth and think for yourself why would Allah want you on your knees five times a day fore the rest of your life?

[yousaf]

i would like to thank everyone for their answers and also not4me for answering them.

[Popeyesays]

The point of such rules as prayer and fasting is to show obedience for the benefit of the one who obeys.

Baha`u'llah starts one of His prayers with this:
"Glorified be Thy name, O Lord my God! I beseech Thee by Thy power that hath encompassed all created things, and by Thy sovereignty that hath transcended the entire creation, and by Thy Word which was hidden in Thy wisdom and whereby Thou didst create
Thy heaven and Thy earth, both to enable us to be steadfast in our love for Thee and in our obedience to Thy pleasure, and to fix our gaze upon Thy face, and celebrate Thy glory."

Abdu'l Baha further explains:
"Then it is clear that the honor and exaltation of man must be something more than material riches. Material comforts are only a branch, but the root of the exaltation of man is the good attributes and virtues which are the adornments of his reality. These are the divine appearances, the heavenly bounties, the sublime emotions, the love and knowledge of God; universal wisdom, intellectual perception, scientific discoveries, justice, equity, truthfulness, benevolence, natural courage and innate fortitude; the respect for rights and the keeping of agreements and covenants; rectitude in all circumstances; serving the truth under all conditions; the sacrifice of one's life for the good of all people; kindness and esteem for all nations; obedience to the teachings of God; service in the Divine Kingdom; the guidance of the people, and the education of the nations and races. This is the prosperity of the human world! This is the exaltation of man in the world! This is eternal life and heavenly honor! These virtues do not appear from the reality of man except through the power of God and the divine teachings, for they need supernatural power for their manifestation."

Regards,
Scott

[kai]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

The point of such rules as prayer and fasting is to show obedience for the benefit of the one who obeys.

Baha`u'llah starts one of His prayers with this:
"Glorified be Thy name, O Lord my God! I beseech Thee by Thy power that hath encompassed all created things, and by Thy sovereignty that hath transcended the entire creation, and by Thy Word which was hidden in Thy wisdom and whereby Thou didst create
Thy heaven and Thy earth, both to enable us to be steadfast in our love for Thee and in our obedience to Thy pleasure, and to fix our gaze upon Thy face, and celebrate Thy glory."

Abdu'l Baha further explains:
"Then it is clear that the honor and exaltation of man must be something more than material riches. Material comforts are only a branch, but the root of the exaltation of man is the good attributes and virtues which are the adornments of his reality. These are the divine appearances, the heavenly bounties, the sublime emotions, the love and knowledge of God; universal wisdom, intellectual perception, scientific discoveries, justice, equity, truthfulness, benevolence, natural courage and innate fortitude; the respect for rights and the keeping of agreements and covenants; rectitude in all circumstances; serving the truth under all conditions; the sacrifice of one's life for the good of all people; kindness and esteem for all nations; obedience to the teachings of God; service in the Divine Kingdom; the guidance of the people, and the education of the nations and races. This is the prosperity of the human world! This is the exaltation of man in the world! This is eternal life and heavenly honor! These virtues do not appear from the reality of man except through the power of God and the divine teachings, for they need supernatural power for their manifestation."

Regards,
Scott

i baulk at the words obedience and obey it smacks of over lordship and servitude , god instills in you the thought that its an Honor to get on your knees and worship him? nice speech as usual but doesn't answer my question why would a GOD such as Allah want you on your knees five times a day and even tell you what and where to eat , sounds like a jailer think about it seriously doesnt it sound just a little odd? that he wants you to tell him how great he is five times a day.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by kai

i baulk at the words obedience and obey it smacks of over lordship and servitude , god instills in you the thought that its an Honor to get on your knees and worship him? nice speech as usual but doesn't answer my question why would a GOD such as Allah want you on your knees five times a day and even tell you what and where to eat , sounds like a jailer think about it seriously doesnt it sound just a little odd? that he wants you to tell him how great he is five times a day.

"Is there any Remover of Difficulties, save God? Say: Praised be God, He is God. All are His servants and all abide by His bidding." The Bab.

Balk if you like, you are only fulfilling God's purpose for yourself, which is to choose.

Regards,
Scott