Parables, can we break the code? (Jesus, moral, Kingdom, beliefs)

[Heneni]

Hello everyone and thank you for this opportunity to engage in a debate with you.

I am particularly fond of the parables. I also like to hear other peoples interpretation of such.

I have found that I often have a different interpretation of the parables than what others do.

It is not my intention to say that your thinking is wrong, or that I expect you to say mine is right, but shall be talk about what we think it means anyway?

Shall we start with this parable:

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. `Be patient with me,' he begged, `and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.He grabbed him and began to choke him. `Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, `Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Then the master called the servant in. `You wicked servant,' he said, `I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

This is what I think it is telling us:

I think this parable is a parable about settling disputes between ourselves. But not in the tradisional way people have interpret this parable.

We each have an account. When we give love it is owed to us, if we give hate, then hate is owed to us. Basically it comes down to do unto others like you would have them do unto you.

To continue...

The servants had an account with the king...one wicked servant owed him quite a bit!

What did he owe the king? Love and respect, since a king pays his servants he does not borrow money to them.

He owed the king so much of it, he could hardly pay it back. He could not pay it back because he was unable to pay it back! He couldnt find it in him to show love and respect for the king. He did not think the king worthy of such.

So when he couldnt pay, the king ordered that that which he loved be sold and taken away from him.

If he did love the king...he would have shown love to others when the king cancelled his debt.

No one the bible says who says that they love God and does not love their brother is really a christian.

So he begged the king for patience. He did not want to loose that which he loved more than the king. His wife, his children and his stuff.

So the king had mercy on him. Since the king too has loved ones.

He then went and showed and litterally proved that he does not have love for the king. He expected his fellow servant to give him what he owed him. What the other servant owed him was much less than what he owed the king.

What the other servant owed the wicked servant was love, but since this wicked servant was quite unable to show much love himself, that which the good servant owed the wicked servant could not have been much!

So he got the other servant to be punished for not showing him love.

Since the wicked servant wanted love in return for love, the king required love in return for love. And since the wicked servant by his own admission believed in tit for tat, the king judged him according to his own beliefs.

The king ordered that the wicked servant be tortured by the jailers. The jailers and the torturers are servants employed by the king for the purpose of administering justice.

So what could this wicked servant pay back? Could he pay back love? No, he did not have it in him.

What did he have in him? Hate.

So the amount of hate he had sown was payed back to him by the jailers and tortures. And he was jailed and tortured untill all the hate he sowed was paid back to him.

And then afterwards his account of hate was settled. But he still owed the king and his fellow servants love.

So the moral of the story is...show love and let it be credited to your account, show hate, and you will recieve hate.

This parable is very often interpreted as Jesus dying for our sins and forgave us, so we have to forgive others.

But the parable does not indicate that the king himself payed the wicked servants debt off.

To put it simply God somehow keeps 'score' regarding the love and the hate we show.

When someone forgives us a great deal, some of our debt towards that person is deleted. Now if we dont want to forgive someone else for a little mistake, then god puts the huge debt back into our account. Since God is the administrator of the accounts there is no partiality!

This is why the bible say...owe no one anything other than love!!!!

It also puts into perspective the fact that we have to love our enemies.

If we love our enemies, their account is deposited with love, love which they did not deserve. So they owe love. By being lovable to them instead of nasty, we are deposting more and more love into their account. They therefore owe more and more love. Since they are giving hate, hate is owed to them. If I demonstrated hate, hate would be owed to me.

So if we want our enemies to be judged by God, instead of us judging them, and wanting to pay them back, hand them over to the ULTIMATE judge, then God will avenge us, and will turn them over to torturers that will pay them back the hate that they have sown, when he thinks the time to settle their account has come. But if you show hate to your enemies, you will be on the recieving end of the torturers yourself.

The purpose of this is that we learn to sow good things, and so even our enemies could become soft hearted and lovable if we dont interfere with the vengence process. We ourselves will reap what we sow.

The jail and the torturers is not hell. It is justice in this life time, and a way for us to learn how to do good instead of evil.

There is no way for us to escape the debts we have built up.

So what debt do we owe to God? We owe him love, and lots of it. And he is indeed worthy of that love.

Love
Heneni

[Dunemeister]

This interpretation completely severs the parable from its context. Jesus didn't wander Palestine telling stories with no connection to the aspirations, fears, and needs of his hearers. So before settling on this interpretation, perhaps you ought to consider the context. When Jesus said the parable, what was going on? Why did he say it? Was he answering a question or a challenge? Usually, he is. What was the challenge or observation that provoked the parable? When you ask and answer questions like these, you are doing what is called exegesis. Through exegesis, you determine the meaning for the original hearers. Hermeneutics is the art of bringing that original meaning into the present. Are our circumstances relevantly similar to those of the original audience? If so, the relevance and meaning of the parable for us is more readily apparent. The more disparate our circumstances from those of the original hearers, the less relevance the meaning of the parable has for us today.

If we don't consider the context, Jesus' parables are about as meaningful and relevant as any other stories, parable or not. I can find meaning in Chaucer or Dostoyevsky if I want to. But to treat Jesus' words like this, especially if you take Jesus to be more than a myth or wise man or kook, is quite inappropriate.

[Heneni]

Hello Dune

It is not my intentions to quibble about context here.If you have a different opinion as to what the parable means, please tell us, but lets not fight about context. Jesus spoke in parables not because he hoped that all the bible school graduates or teachers or preachers would spoil the mystery in it, by throwing well meaning christians with the stone of CONTEXT!

I dont want this thread to became a war zone, my intention is to hear what others think is the interpretation of the parable themselves. Not to dispute mine, unless that is done in a friendly manner, and I will question yours in a friendly manner.

The problem with church folk is that they forget that not everyone in the world has gone to bible school. I did, and so I know all about CONTEXT. For every other discussion I might have regarding the bible, I DO consider context, but I want to let people tell me what they think the mystery of the parables are without bashing them with my brilliant interpretation and possibly flawed idea of CONTEXT!

There are thousands of people out there, who only grab the bible and if they think the parable means something else, and voice their opinion, who am I to throw the word CONTEXT at them. And since Jesus was thrilled to bits that mysteries are revealed to children so to speak, I doubt kids have gone to bible school to learn about context.

The HS teaches us, and so we all go through a teaching prosess. I started this post to hear other peoples interpretation of parables, because I think parables have one meaning, and if you look deeper, another meaning, and when you look really close, its about YOU.

If you have figure out the mystery of every parable, then please enlighten us.

[ChristineES]

I believe the message in that parable is very simple: If you show others mercy God will show you mercy.
The King- God
The Servant- One of Us
The Fellow Servant- Our Neighbor.

[Heneni]

The Parable of the Minas

11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.' 14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'
15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'
17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'
18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'
19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'
20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'
24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'
25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."

I find two things interesting in this parable:

First the subjects hated him, and wanted to kill him. They were judged by their own actions and they ended up being killed. What they wanted to do to him, was done done to them.

And secondly, the servant that said this:

'You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow', was judged by his own words and he said that god was harsh.

So since that is what he thought of god...god was harsh on him.

As for as god taking out what he did not put in and reap what he did not sow....

The man said god takes out what he did not put in. So then, he should have acted on that belief and put the money in the bank so that god could take out interest. But he didnt and so he was judged by his own beliefs.

The man said that god reaps what he did not sow and so god took from him all that he had reaped without sowing. Hence those who have nothing(nothing that they sowed) even what they have (what they have reaped without sowing) will be taken away from them.

The parable also points out an interesting reaction to our actions regarding what we think of Jesus.

What we think of Jesus is very much grounded in what we are ourselves.

There were the subjects who hated him and wanted him killed. They were murderers in themselves, and was murdered themselves. If you live by the sword you will die by the sword.

They had no 'faith' which for this purpose is simply this....A high opinion of Jesus.

The wicked servant who hid the minas, had a certain opinion of Jesus.

That opinion was grounded in what he was himself. The servant liked reaping without sowing. He was greedy therefore. He hid the mina, since he wasn’t going to let Jesus reap where he did not sow. He wouldn't extend to Jesus the same courtesy as Jesus extended to him. He came up with a lame excuse about Jesus being harsh.

And he was judged for it.

There are many places in the bible where Jesus said...

YOUR FAITH has done this or that....meaning....your opinion of Jesus has allowed you to gain access to his graces.

It is by grace that you are saved, through faith. It is by a free gift he gives us when we have a high opinion of him. If he gave a gift to those that hate him, they would just throw it away, and the gift would be wasted.

[Scuba Pete]

I agree with Christine: it's all about heavenly Karma.

[Heneni]

About heavenly karma

Whatever you sow you will reap.....

So then we all deserve death sins the wages of sin is death.

Dont really believe in karma when it comes to our relationship with god, since we were all sinners when he died for us. Did no deserve any good karma , but he was mercyfull to us and gave us good karma.

I believe in karma when it comes to how we treat our fellow humans.

[sojourner]

Parables are not told to appeal to the head. Parables appeal to the gut. If we try to dissect them intellectually, we usually get ourselves into trouble. Parables must be understood beyond the intellect, through the emotional impact they have upon us, where they can create a reversal within our core beliefs. That is how they are compelling to us as spiritual tools.

[doppelgänger]

We each have our own secret decoder ring. The result is that the code gets broken at least a little differently by anyone who approaches it.