Religious Pluarlism God (Jesus Christ, Creator, Earth, Deists, Jehovah)

[Fish-Hunter]

Religious Pluralism:

It seems the universal god on this site is religious pluralism. Please explain what you believe in regards to religious pluralism. I personally believe that the religious pluralism god is an imaginary god created by men as an idol of the heart?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Please explain what you believe in regards to religious pluralism.

Religious pluralism is merely an admission that we are not perfect and may not have the entire truth.

I personally believe that the religious pluralism god is an imaginary god created by men as an idol of the heart?

To the extent that our own images of god are imperfect, they are no less idols.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Religious pluralism is merely an admission that we are not perfect and may not have the entire truth.
To the extent that our own images of god are imperfect, they are no less idols.

I think you are in agreement that we create idols when our perecption of God is imperfect, correct? If a One True God is reality, how does someone know that they are worshiping the One True God or an imaginary idol of the heart? How do we know if someone is praying and worshiping a false God which has no power to answer your prayers, or to receive your praise and worship? If we worship an imaginary god that we created, are we worshiping self as god?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

I think you are in agreement that we create idols when our perecption of God is imperfect, correct?

Yes.

If a One True God is reality, how does someone know that they are worshiping the One True God or an imaginary idol of the heart?

We cannot know, thus the concept of faith.

How do we know if someone is praying and worshiping a false God which has no power to answer your prayers, or to receive your praise and worship?

Again, we can't. When we get information that doesn't align with our expectations, we have all these bizarre explanations to rationalize answers to prayer. "The answer may be yes, no, or not now." Well, that means that we have 100% answers, reinforcing the idea that a rock or whatever we pray to is indeed answering. "You must've been praying outside God's will." "God isn't Burger King. You can't have it your way." Honestly, it doesn't matter how successful prayer is, because we will find some convenient excuse to believe what we believe anyway. We build our idols.

If we worship an imaginary god that we created, are we worshiping self as god?

Sure. "God" is a label for a projection.

[Fish-Hunter]

Wandered Off Online!
Religion: theological nonrealism
Title:figurehead



HI Wandered Off,

Ah...but don't we come to this subject of faith with our own presuppositions? Are you saying that if the One True God is reality, than God does not reveal Himself in absolute certainty and universally to all mankind? If you answer yes to these questions, how do you know God does not reveal Himself universally and absolutely?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Ah...but don't we come to this subject of faith with our own presuppositions?

Indeed, we come to every subject with those.

Are you saying that if the One True God is reality, than God does not reveal Himself in absolute certainty and universally to all mankind?

That is my conclusion based on the fact that there is widespread disagreement on what "God" is. Even within faiths, no two people have exactly the same image, but that's a perfectly natural outcome of the way we process information.

If you answer yes to these questions, how do you know God does not reveal Himself universally and absolutely?

I don't claim certainty on this. Certainty would make faith superfluous. All I have are probabilities based on my observations.

Many deists would say that the universe itself is a "universal, absolute revelation". However, I suspect you're talking about some kind of more personal revelation that leads to a particular belief system. The countless versions of "revealed gods" is very strong evidence against a universal, absolute personal revelation, in my view. In fact, I can't think of what kind of evidence could be more convincing. Had a universal, absolute revelation been made, it's not much of a stretch to imagine things would look very different.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Please explain what you believe in regards to religious pluralism.

“There are many paths which lead to truth, but since Christian truth has a salvific value, any one of these paths may be taken, as long as it leads to the final goal, that is to the Revelation of Jesus Christ”
John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Fides et ratio, n. 38.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Indeed, we come to every subject with those.

That is my conclusion based on the fact that there is widespread disagreement on what "God" is. Even within faiths, no two people have exactly the same image, but that's a perfectly natural outcome of the way we process information.

I don't claim certainty on this. Certainty would make faith superfluous. All I have are probabilities based on my observations.

Many deists would say that the universe itself is a "universal, absolute revelation". However, I suspect you're talking about some kind of more personal revelation that leads to a particular belief system. The countless versions of "revealed gods" is very strong evidence against a universal, absolute personal revelation, in my view. In fact, I can't think of what kind of evidence could be more convincing. Had a universal, absolute revelation been made, it's not much of a stretch to imagine things would look very different.

Are you familar with the teaching of general universal revelation taught in the Christian Bible? Even if someone does not believe the Bible to be God-breathed, there is truth of natural revelation when we gaze at creation wonders such as awesome sunsets, stars, oceans, storms, tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanos, Grand Canyon, Yosemite, coastal Redwoods, etc.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 1

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Scott1

“There are many paths which lead to truth, but since Christian truth has a salvific value, any one of these paths may be taken, as long as it leads to the final goal, that is to the Revelation of Jesus Christ”
John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Fides et ratio, n. 38.

HI Scott,

Does the Pope teach that all versions of Jesus Christ are valid and salvific in value? For instance, the Muslim Jesus, Hindu Jesus, Mormon Jesus, Jehovah Witness Jesus, Jesus Seminar Jesus, Rastafarian Jesus, and even the Protestant Jesus can be quite different than the Roman Catholic Jesus.

John 8:24:
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." - Jesus Christ

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Does the Pope teach that all versions of Jesus Christ are valid and salvific in value? For instance, the Muslim Jesus, Hindu Jesus, Mormon Jesus, Jehovah Witness Jesus, Jesus Seminar Jesus, Rastafarian Jesus, and even the Protestant Jesus can be quite different than the Roman Catholic Jesus.

Just to be clear, this is a teaching of the Church... not just a specific Pope....

I'm not familiar with all the "versions" of Jesus you mentioned, but I would have to say that in general the same teaching applies... if any of these "versions" differ from the truth as revealed to the Church, they valid/salvific only where they teach the truth.