When do we blame God? (theist, God, Christians, Christ)

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by sola'lor

I don't believe God removing the choice will make people perfect. I believe the opposite. If God removed our choice we would be little more than robots.

Sorry, but if everyone is perfect, then everyone would be the same. And if everyone is the same, then you would be nothing more than a robot anyway.

You will do the same thing, you will like the same things, and you will behave in the same way. With perfection, there are no growth (and I don't mean physically), you can't learn, no mysteries. You will become stagnant. To me that's not life at all.

Is there any purpose in such "perfect" life?

Thus, I find heaven just as appealing as hell. It would be damn boring.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by gnostic

Sorry, but if everyone is perfect, then everyone would be the same. And if everyone is the same, then you would be nothing more than a robot anyway.

You will do the same thing, you will like the same things, and you will behave in the same way.

I disagree. I don't think that perfection removes a person's identity. Making all the correct decisions doesn't mean everyone must tak ethe same actions. Is it more perfect to enjoy cold weather or hot weather?

With perfection, there are no growth (and I don't mean physically), you can't learn, no mysteries. You will become stagnant. To me that's not life at all.

I agree with this statement. If a person is omnimax there is nothing more they can learn or improve upon. The only way a person could continue to progress is through children. This also goes with my beliefs about God. Although my beliefs are not based solely in what Mormon doctrine excists. I believe that God can no longer progress through Himself. He is at the ominmax point and cannont do anything to progress further. The only was He can progress is through His children's progression. I believe that those who reach exhaltation will be come perfect just as God is. They will have their own universes to create and rule in, just as God rules in this universe. So If God's children will become gods or their own universes God progresses because now He is no longer God of one universe but He is God of trillions(or infinate) who each rule their own universe. He is in a greater position than He was before. And thus progresses. Of course that's my own opinion and I don't think many other LDS would agree.

Is there any purpose in such "perfect" life?

To fulfill our potential as literal offspring of God.

Thus, I find heaven just as appealing as hell. It would be damn boring.

Well I respect your opinon. I know I wont convince you of my opinon nor am I trying to. It's just all makes sense to me and fits together. But I'm sure you feel the same about your beliefs. Anyway, there ya go.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by sola'lor

To fulfill our potential as literal offspring of God.

But what's that entail?

Worship him for endless hours, days, years?

That would be so boring and be the end of me.

Can I do what I like? I supposed there are restrictions. There are stuff that I like, which is totally harmless in this life, but may be considered a "sin" in heaven. Also if I am "perfect" in knowledge, then there would be no fun in finding and revealing mystery, since I would already know it. Boring.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by gnostic

Thus, I find heaven just as appealing as hell. It would be damn boring.

Reminds me of something Marilynne Robinson said: "Dawn and its excesses have always reminded me of heaven, a place where I have always known I would not be comfortable."

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by tomspug

At what point do people in general tend to lay blame on God rather than on themselves or other people? Likewise, when do people generally tend to attribute thanks to God? Is there a relationship between those two answers?

I think the answers should be rather obvious. I'm not so sure I will read the entire thread to see if my supposition is correct however.

My 2.02 cents is this. It simply would never occur to me to blame "god" OR to thank "god" -- for anything. "God" is not repsonsible for the tragedy in our lives, period. On the other hand, imo, "God" is not insecure enough to desire our verbal "Thank you's", but like an elderly person, "he" does enjoy a visit to his "home", on occasion. The simple fact that we exist and grow is all the "thanks" that "he" requires. One small related addition is that I don't believe that "god" desires to be worshipped, in any fashion, and that runs counter to virtually all religions created by my fellow human animals.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by gnostic

But what's that entail?

Worship him for endless hours, days, years?

That would be so boring and be the end of me.

I agree that would be quite boring. I don't believe we will be doing that. When I said, 'fulfill our potential as literal offspring of God," I mnight not have clarified. Just as a puppy will grow up to be a dog. Just as the baby of a horse will grow up to be a horse. A child of God will grow up to be just like their parent. Our potential is to learn everything, learn to always make the perfect decision, have absolute power over our own universes. Then when we have reached the omnimax stage and can no longer progress on our own we will have spirit children of our own in our own universe. Then we will progress through their salvation just as God progresses through ours.

Can I do what I like? I supposed there are restrictions. There are stuff that I like, which is totally harmless in this life, but may be considered a "sin" in heaven. Also if I am "perfect" in knowledge, then there would be no fun in finding and revealing mystery, since I would already know it. Boring.

I'm not sure exactly what exhaltation will be like. But I imagine there will be lots of learning and developing the self. I don't believe there will be sin in Heaven. Not because the people there can't take those actions, but they won't take those action. But as I said, once a person reaches the perfect stage, the only way they can progress further is through their own offspring.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by sola'lor

A child of God will grow up to be just like their parent.

I don't want be just like my parents....sorry, that doesn't sound right. Don't take this the wrong way, sola'lor. They are good people, my parents; I love them and I am proud of them.

What I mean to say is that I am "my own person", an individual with my own ideal, my own principle, my own trait, my own dreams. They have their own characteristics. I am not an extension of my parents.

I don't want to be an extension of your god too....even more so, because I see some characteristics of God, to be...I don't like to use this term, but it is the only to describe...his characteristics seemed to be - "evil". This Abrahamic god that you worshipped have characteristics that seemed to be of exaggerated proportion, but which is strangely human.

He seemed to have human emotions, like love and compassion on one side, but in the other side, he can showed hatred, jealous, arrogance. To me, his negative attributes stand out far more than his positive side.

He doesn't appear to be a loving god in the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament, the attribute of loving god is negated by the gospel teaching of people going to hell for simply not sharing faith, seemed more horrific than any image of Satan.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I don't want be just like my parents....sorry, that doesn't sound right. Don't take this the wrong way, sola'lor. They are good people, my parents; I love them and I am proud of them.

What I mean to say is that I am "my own person", an individual with my own ideal, my own principle, my own trait, my own dreams. They have their own characteristics. I am not an extension of my parents.

I don't want to be an extension of your god too....even more so, because I see some characteristics of God, to be...I don't like to use this term, but it is the only to describe...his characteristics seemed to be - "evil". This Abrahamic god that you worshipped have characteristics that seemed to be of exaggerated proportion, but which is strangely human.

He seemed to have human emotions, like love and compassion on one side, but in the other side, he can showed hatred, jealous, arrogance. To me, his negative attributes stand out far more than his positive side.

He doesn't appear to be a loving god in the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament, the attribute of loving god is negated by the gospel teaching of people going to hell for simply not sharing faith, seemed more horrific than any image of Satan.

What I mean becoming like their parents I'm refering to species. A baby pig grows up to be a pig. A baby dog grows up to be a dog. A child of God grows up to be a god. It only follows. But I don't believe anything a person doesn't want will be forced upon them.

I also understand your statments regarding an evil god. But in my religion we have none of these conflict. It is possible for God to take the actions in the OT and the NT nd be a loving God. A simple understanding of intentions, scripture history, culture, and a few other things helps to solve this apparent problem.


I don't believe in a place called Hell where everyone who doesn't believe will go for all eternity.