Is Ishmael a prophet? (Jesus, Torah, gospel, genesis, myth)

[gnostic]

I supposed the topic title says it all.

I know that in Islam and Muslims, but this to me seem hearsay, from Arabic writers that are most likely trying to promote the race of their people, therefore biased.

There are no indication that he was a prophet. The only one we know for sure is that Hagar, his mother, had spoken to an angel, twice (or angels since we don't know if the same angel spoke to her twice), so she should be prophetess, I'd guess.

Is there any reference to Ishmael having angel visitation in the Genesis or other Jewish literature?

[Francine]

Originally Posted by gnostic

Is there any reference to Ishmael having angel visitation in the Genesis or other Jewish literature?

Funny how they say Isaac was the son who God wanted Abraham to sacrifice, when Isaac remained with Abraham while Ishmael was banished.

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by francine

Funny how they say Isaac was the son who God wanted Abraham to sacrifice, when Isaac remained with Abraham while Ishmael was banished.

I am not sure with this right or not, but any Muslim can correct me if I am wrong about this. I think in Islamic version says that Abraham was going to sacrifice Ishmael, not Isaac.

This change of character in this episode of the story sounded like attempt to make Ishmael greater than Isaac.

[not4me]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I know that in Islam and Muslims, but this to me seem hearsay, from Arabic writers that are most likely trying to promote the race of their people, therefore biased.

Who are those Arabic writers that try to promote their race? What difference would it make for the Arabic writers if Ismael wasn't a prophet, at the end Ismael leads to Ibrahim the prophet?!!

[credance]

Some think there is a connection with Ishmael and Arab origin.
Scripture (Torah) says his descendants shall be like a wild donkey and he will fight his brother, but I do not know of his lineage with Arabs.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[gnostic]

We are getting sidetracked, but I will answer.

Originally Posted by not4me

Who are those Arabic writers that try to promote their race? What difference would it make for the Arabic writers if Ismael wasn't a prophet, at the end Ismael leads to Ibrahim the prophet?!!

Did not Muhammad trace his lineage to Abraham via Ishmael?

It is quite a common fallacy and ego-trip for man to trace their ancestry to someone great. It is quite common to make such big claim.

The gospel writers trace Jesus back to David.

Rome trace it back to legendary Romulus and the mythological hero, Aeneas. The Scandinavian people also trace their ancestors back to Odin, and even further back to Aeneas as well. Similarly, Geoffrey of Monmouth trace King Arthur to Aeneas too.

Alexander the Great believed that he was son of the Egyptian god, Ammon (Amun), as well as his descendant to the mythological heroes of Peleus, Achilles and Neoptolemus (Pyrrhus).

There are no written record of Muhammad's relation to Ishmael, so I would treat any such claim with caution and dubiousness. Seriously how can any claim be made without proof?

[not4me]

Originally Posted by gnostic

Did not Muhammad trace his lineage to Abraham via Ishmael?

It is quite a common fallacy and ego-trip for man to trace their ancestry to someone great. It is quite common to make such big claim.

Yes he did but Quraysh and the Arabs did this before him so he didn't invent something new. Muhammad didn't need to trace his ancestry to someone great as Muhammad's greatness is enough but as I said the Arabs too "claimed" that their ancestry return to Ibrahim.

But this is not the point. You asked if Ismael is a prophet and said that Muslims claim so but they are biased, I asked what difference would it make if Ismael was a prophet or not, in both cases Ismael is the son of Ibrahim.