Book of Mormon vs. DNA (blood, America, Jewish, Eve)

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Here we go again! I guess this argument boils down to a question of science vs. religion. Which do you trust more, the scientific perspective on science with respect to religion or the religion's perspective on science with respect to religion?

Good question, and well put. When science and religion conflict, which do you accept?

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by Sola'lor

Mmm. I don't agree. It's not science vs. the Book of Mormon. Science hasn't come up with anything that directly opposes the Book of Mormon.

I believe you're incorrect here. For example, archeologists know that the implements, metals, plants, animals and other artifacts described in the BoM did not exist in America prior to the European migration here. The BoM describes millions of people doing very specific things, and there is no trace of them anywhere in America. The BoM describes enormous battles with thousands of soldiers using swords, bows and arrows, armor, etc., but there is no trace of them. The only possible Mormon response to this is that just because we haven't found a scintilla of archeological evidence to support the BoM doesn't mean we won't someday, so let's just keep faith. The problem, of course, is that by now, 150 years later, we've explored most of the Americas, and we know who lived here, where, how many of them, and how they lived. And they just plain aren't the BoM people, period. They don't match the agricultural, pastoral, metallurgy, etc. etc. of the people described there. For example, they didn't have wheels. Period. No wheels. What happened to the populous BoM people with their wheeled chariots? Did they evaporate?

The only way you can say that science doesn't dispute the BoM is to close your eyes, plug your ears, hum loudly and claim that all of the evidence we've found so far is just inconclusive. However, in doing so, you disagree with all of the experts in many different fields, such as genetics, linguistics, archeology, anthropology and so forth.

[Autodidact]

My favorite Mormon apologetics for this: When the BoM says "horses," it doesn't really mean "horses," it means "deer." "Cows" means "buffalo," "sheep" means antelopes and so on and so forth, till you need a new Urim and Thurim to translate the BoM from Smithish to English.

[DeepShadow]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Um... Asia. We're talking about Asia. It spans a third of the globe! Do you have any idea how far away the Bering Strait is from Israel? No scientist that believes in a North-Asian ancestry is referring to Israel, which is practically an African country in proximity!

What are you talking about?! Nibley's hypothesis (as I cited earlier in this thread) was that the Jaredites were North Asian, and this would give the majority of Lehite peoples North Asian ancestry.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

How do you know? Does the archeological evidence support this? Have we found artifacts of the objects, crops, animals and plants described in the BoM? Does the DNA evidence support it?

Joseph Smith was given the Book of Mormon plates by an angel of God who directed Joseph to translate them. If I were in Joseph Smith's shoes, saw and heard the angel, handled the plates, and experienced the power of God to translate, I would not say, wait, I need to go down to Central America and make sure the archaeology supports the revelation. The Book of Mormon came forward by revelation and is believed by revelation. In due time we'll know how the DNA fits in. Be patient. It will come.

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

Joseph Smith was given the Book of Mormon plates by an angel of God who directed Joseph to translate them. If I were in Joseph Smith's shoes, saw and heard the angel, handled the plates, and experienced the power of God to translate, I would not say, wait, I need to go down to Central America and make sure the archaeology supports the revelation. The Book of Mormon came forward by revelation and is believed by revelation. In due time we'll know how the DNA fits in. Be patient. It will come.

The problem is that it has come, and it tends to indicate that Joseph Smith was mistaken in every regard. That is, the archeology does not in fact support the "revelation."

Let me put it this way: So far there, of the hundreds of archeologists excavating hundreds of sites in the Americas, 0% of them match the BoM, and 100% of them contradict it. At what point do you accept that this is reality, or, if this situation continues another 100 years, do you still wait faithfully?

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

Joseph Smith was given the Book of Mormon plates by an angel of God who directed Joseph to translate them. If I were in Joseph Smith's shoes, saw and heard the angel, handled the plates, and experienced the power of God to translate, I would not say, wait, I need to go down to Central America and make sure the archaeology supports the revelation. The Book of Mormon came forward by revelation and is believed by revelation. In due time we'll know how the DNA fits in. Be patient. It will come.

God told me that the Book of Mormon was written by a contemporary of Joseph Smith as a work of fiction. Later I learned that there was a congregationalist writer who claimed that Joseph Smith had stolen his text. I have read the Book of Mormon and it reads like a mirror image to the Bible except in a couple of instances where it is off a bit. As a fictional story based on the Bible it probably sticks to the facts better than "The Greatest Story Ever Told."

Obviously there will never be any proof that the Book of Mormon is legitimate because it isn't. And I wouldn't make bets on those tablets ever being made available for study because the LDS leaders more than likely know the truth. Of course it wouldn't mean anything if the tablets were translated because supposedly JS scried the translation and it is most likely not even close.

[Melissa G]

Originally Posted by DeepShadow

What are you talking about?! Nibley's hypothesis (as I cited earlier in this thread) was that the Jaredites were North Asian, and this would give the majority of Lehite peoples North Asian ancestry.

Really, so they've gone from being Jews to being Siberian...far out lol. Did they migrate to Israel from Siberia before floating off to the Amercia's. How utterly bizarre, my my your grasping at straws now

Melissa G