The God Delusion (Darwin, Messiah, choice, evolution, atheist)

stephenw · #1 12-20-2007, 03:49 AM

I've made it half way through the book and I just can't go any further. It's not that I'm offended by what Dawkins has to say in fact I agree with some of it.
I think the book is designed to appeal to those who are already atheists rather than engage in any way those who are not. It seems Dawkins considers theists complete idiots.
I've got as far as 6 points that he says are the central arguments of his book, which I think can be fairly summarised as:-

1. One of the greatest challenges to the human intellect has been to explain how the complex, improbable appearance of design in the universe arises.

2. The natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself.

3. The temptation to attribute to design is false because it raises the problem of who designed the designer.

4. Darwin illustrates that the appearance of design is an illusion.

5. Physics doesn't have a scientist who has done for physics what Darwin did for biology.

6. We shouldn't give up hope of something similar to Darwinism being produced by Physics.

This shows that the God Hyppothesis is untenable. "God almost certainly does not exist".I don't agree.

I agree with points #1,#2, #5, #6.
I disagree with #3, I regard the problem of where all the matter in the Universe came from as the same problem as who made God
#4 Evolution is evidence of evolution. That's all.

Jayhawker Soule · #2 12-20-2007, 04:14 AM

It's a pretentious temper tantrum.

Bouncing Ball · #3 12-20-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

It's a pretentious temper tantrum.

Amazing how your first posts always say the same, but you can still find different words to express it

"4. Darwin illustrates that the appearance of design is an illusion."
Doesn't have to be, but I do agree with him according to my ideas.
This world seems less complex than some people tend to believe..

Willamena · #4 12-20-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenw

4. Darwin illustrates that the appearance of design is an illusion.

Does he, or Dawkins, address the fact that illusions exist? That they're real and effective?

rocketman · #5 12-20-2007, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenw

I think the book is designed to appeal to those who are already atheists rather than engage in any way those who are not. It seems Dawkins considers theists complete idiots.

I have no choice but to agree with your estimation. I was hoping there would be some penetrating new insight in this book. I think an honest Dawkins would see the need to stick to science. Unfortunately he's been made a messiah, and no doubt feels the pressure to speak every so often. I just wish he had something interesting to say.

Jayhawker Soule · #6 12-20-2007, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman

II think an honest Dawkins would see the need to stick to science.

In those books where he does 'stick to science' he is often exceptional.

By the way, there is no "need to stick to science".

Jayhawker Soule · #7 12-20-2007, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouncing Ball

This world seems less complex than some people tend to believe..

However it might seem, this world is qualitatively more complex than the overwhelming majority of people tend to believe, and the study of complexity is proving itself increasingly valuable.

rocketman · #8 12-20-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

In those books where he does 'stick to science' he is often exceptional.

That's what he's good at, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

By the way, there is no "need to stick to science".

If the alternatives are failing badly I'd strongly suggest sticking to what he's good at