The God Delusion (Darwin, Messiah, choice, evolution, atheist)

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by tomspug

The idea that the universe is humanly comprehensible isn't exactly backed up by history. Science has historically always been WRONG about things that were theoretical. In fact, most of the things we now accept as obvious were not really confirmed until they were actually explored. Human biology was laughable until the first autopsy. Until geology became well funded, we had some pretty nutsy theories of how the planet worked.

What I am saying is that the notion that the universe is 'easily defined' is a childish belief that has driven mankind to jump to conclusions. The way I see it, using pattern recognition, no matter how many mysteries are revealed, there will always be new mysteries behind it. And no, I don't think that religion's purpose is to eliminate mystery either. That's what bad religions do, try to put things in a box.

Let me know when they figure out the make-up of the universe.

And religious belief could not possibly be a jump to a conclusion?

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by Guitar's Cry

Interesting! How so?

To put it simply, he's saying that God needs a cause, which is contrary to most definitions of "God." Every human is an effect and therefore has a cause, but it does not follow that God has a cause. What if creatorship were the aggregate of his acting nature rather than an attribute like an artist's ability to paint pretty pictures?

[Random]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

To put it simply, he's saying that God needs a cause, which is contrary to most definitions of "God." Every human is an effect (human) and therefore has a cause, but it does not follow that God has a cause. What if creatorship were the aggregate of his acting nature rather than an attribute like an artist's ability to paint pretty pictures?

Gnostics used to describe the creative power of God as the First Thought. I see a lot of that in what you are saying.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by frg001

#3 is a perfectly valid response. If something designed something as complicated as the universe, then who designed that thing?

This implies that you deserve to know this answer.

You don't.

[Random]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

This implies that you deserve to know this answer.

You don't.

Ohh, that's ruthless.

You don't think human beings deserve to know the whole and unreserved truth about their origins and history, in detail?

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by Random

Gnostics used to describe the creative power of God as the First Thought. I see a lot of that in what you are saying.

Yes, but "first" is used differently..relationally rather than sequentially. There is no "first" or beginning in eternity. The "First Thought" is co-eternal with God. Dawkins' argument is shot down.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by Random

Ohh, that's ruthless.

You don't think human beings deserve to know the whole and unreserved truth about their origins and history, in detail?

You ever watch that movie where the guy says "You can't handle the truth!"

Something like that...

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

You ever watch that movie where the guy says "You can't handle the truth!"

Something like that...

"We should believe that God has dealt more bountifully with the sons of men, then to give him a strong desire for that knowledge, which He has placed quite out of their reach." G. Berkeley

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stone

To put it simply, he's saying that God needs a cause, which is contrary to most definitions of "God." Every human is an effect and therefore has a cause, but it does not follow that God has a cause. What if creatorship were the aggregate of his acting nature rather than an attribute like an artist's ability to paint pretty pictures?

You're the first person I've read in a long time to say that. I wonder why no one else can figure out that the very definition of "God" (and I hate that word), precludes that it should have a creator or an originator. I chalked it up to people's inability to think in terms of eternity with any measure of reality. We simply cannot comprehend something in existance that didn't have to be produced by something else.