Christ's sacrifice in vain? (Jesus Christ, beliefs, doom, church, sin)

[sojourner]

The path is not important.
Reaching HOME IS.

I couldn't disagree more! It's precisely the journey -- the process -- of learning how to live into our righteous state, learning how to tear down our walls, learning to accept ourselves as Christ accepts us -- that is of utmost importance.

Reaching home? We've already been reconciled by the Incarnation. We no longer have to worry about getting home. Christ has brought us there.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

It is the central tenet of Christianity that God sent his only begotten son amongst mankind as a ransom for man’s sins. This should have meant that sin in mankind, which entered mankind through the original sin of Adam in disobeying God (and eating the forbidden fruit), the wages for which was death, would have been cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This should have resulted in everlasting life for mankind since then. However, it appears to me that the ransom of Christ was hijacked by the Church which said that mankind would be assured of everlasting life only if it believes in Jesus Christ. Has Christ’s sacrifice been in vain?

No, the sacrifice was not in vain. The sacrifice displays Jesus' loyalty to the truth in the face of scary and overwhlming odds. Had he "cut and run," his teachings would never have been validated. But, being willing to be hung for one's convictions is a display of on'es belief in those convictions as truth worth dying for.

This is not saying that the sacrifice was necessary for salvation, or called for by God. God did not ask for the sacrifice. Humanity did.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by emiliano

and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

This is more comforting for a heathen like me. At least John has not reported here that I need to believe. Here it’s all about Karma. (I can hear my friend Sandy Whitelinger fume about disingenuous quotations.)

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

I can accuse you, and I am, of being ill-motivated when you take only one part of Scripture and exclude pertinent information from other verses to make a perverted point.

There is an irony here, Sandy, which you might miss. This is indeed THE accusation of non-Christians (read Churchians) like me about Church inspired Christians. They take just one scripture, or maybe two, ignoring all the other innumerable scriptures of mankind, to make their (perverted?) point that truth is only what is written in the Bible. Maybe devils like me who quote the scriptures are giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Before the moderators decide that I have declared war on Christians, let me tell them and all Christians who are reading this that declaring war on Christians would tantamount to declaring war on myself for I consider myself a Christian though I belong to no Church. Nay, I think the Churches are only hanging on to the letter of Christ and not the spirit.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by sojourner

No, the sacrifice was not in vain. The sacrifice displays Jesus' loyalty to the truth in the face of scary and overwhlming odds. Had he "cut and run," his teachings would never have been validated. But, being willing to be hung for one's convictions is a display of on'es belief in those convictions as truth worth dying for.

This is not saying that the sacrifice was necessary for salvation, or called for by God. God did not ask for the sacrifice. Humanity did.

Here we are talking of Jesus, son of God. Even Bush is not the "cut and run" type. Many ordinary folks have hung for their courage of convictions. Jesus came for our salvation. He was, apparently, sent by God for this express purpose. A sacrifice was in the offing all along. But finally we have to get the act together ourselves. We have to believe. It seemeth more to me that Jesus was teaching about the divinity in man - much more than a mere sinner.

[rocketman]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

1 John 3:8, "He that doeth sin, is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. In this thing the Son of God appeared, that he undo the works of the devil."
The son of God, it appears, did not undo the works of the devil. He left it to us, the sinners, to do so by believing in him, Christ.

We overcome by putting our trust in him. The reason this works is becasue he has already overcome the devil and qualified to supercede him here on earth when the time is right. Note that we don't overcome the devil with our own effort. We overcome by the blood of the lamb (sacrifice of Jesus) .

Can we add a single thing to Jesus sacrifice? No, nothing. It's done. All that's left is for us to accept it on our behalf, so that which has been overcome applies to us. Remember, God won't force anyone to accept it.

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

Has any believer of Christ survived beyond the span allotted to sinners? It appears the only person who somewhat believed in Christ was Christ himself, because he shrugged off death and lived, not eternally, but for 40 days.

Friend, a scripture here and there will only make for a long thread short on answers. I suggest you read the New testament slowly and carefully, so you have some idea of these very basic concepts before you put one up in isolation. For this one have a look at Revelation and the resurections etc.

As to your original question, do you now see that you can offer God nothing in return?

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Friend Venu,
The price was 30 gold coins for which Jesus was betrayed.
However, nothing goes in vain. There are a few who have achived salvation by following the path, Jesus showed. More are achieving to certain degrees by following small bits and pieces of his teachings and slowly and surely after many lives they will reach HOME.
The path is not important.
Reaching HOME IS.
Love & rgds

It was thirty SILVER coins-shekels are silver. Check it out for yourself in the Bible. Thirty silver pieces.

Regards,
Scott

[tomspug]

I'd attempt to explain, but I think that Paul is far more eloquent.

Nonetheless, I think the misunderstanding you have comes from a lack of existential perspective. It is very crucial to the resurrection of Christ that the acceptance of it is a choice in the same way that sin (the whole reason Christ was there in the first place) was a choice.

I guess the argument would then be why doesn't God force salvation on people, even if they don't believe in it? Of course, then faith would be worthless, not to mention free will.