Jesus the one true Avatar (incarnation, creation, prophet, experience)

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Ask most educated Hindus "How many gods are there?"

The answer will be: "One".

By this reasoning Krshna is an avatar of the Godhead. As is Vishnu, or Ganesh, or Kali, or SIva or any of the "gods".

Regards,
Scott

It is likely the 'educated' Hindus mean one reality and innumerable expressions. Hindus would feel left out in saying there is only one God if by it you were to mean a God separate from us.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

You're picking a nit's nit here, and trying to draw a distinction that does not really exist.

Um, no. You want to collapse Hinduism down into a simple monotheism that is more familiar and likable to you. Yes, it is true that ultimately Hinduism is monotheistic in that there is only the One which is the source of all. But the devas aren't to be simply collapsed into nothingness.

As real divine entities, devas incarnate on earth as avatars when necessary. Not all devas incarnate, so not all of them have avatars. The distinction is real.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

As to the last sentence--that's a serious non sequitur.

My point is that if your argument is that the devas are simply expressions of the one true God, then so are we. And if that's what you want to call an "avatar" then so are we. It's not what most people mean by avatar tho.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by lilithu

My point is that if your argument is that the devas are simply expressions of the one true God, then so are we. And if that's what you want to call an "avatar" then so are we. It's not what most people mean by avatar tho.

We are expressions of God but we are not avtaars because we are only evolving towards our divinity, whereas an avtaar happens when God involves Himself in the human situation, thereby apparently restricting Himself while being fully aware of His reality all the time. We can't really know who an avtaar is, for God can come in any guise. But when we come across humans who seem to possess awesome spiritual powers, we dub them avataars. Avtaars rarely declare themselves to be avtaars. Even Krishna's best friend Arjuna did not know Krishna was an avtaar till a crucial moment.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by lilithu

My point is that if your argument is that the devas are simply expressions of the one true God, then so are we. And if that's what you want to call an "avatar" then so are we. It's not what most people mean by avatar tho.

We are expressions of God but we are not avtaars because we are only evolving towards our divinity, whereas an avtaar happens when God involves Himself in the human situation, thereby apparently restricting Himself while being fully aware of His reality all the time. We can't really know who an avtaar is, for God can come in any guise. But when we come across humans who seem to possess awesome spiritual powers, we dub them avataars. Avtaars rarely declare themselves to be avtaars. Even Krishna's best friend Arjuna did not know Krishna was an avtaar till a crucial moment.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Um, no. You want to collapse Hinduism down into a simple monotheism that is more familiar and likable to you. Yes, it is true that ultimately Hinduism is monotheistic in that there is only the One which is the source of all. But the devas aren't to be simply collapsed into nothingness. . . . . .

.

The devas or avatars, or incarnations are for our benefit, not God's. These serve as foci of prayer and meditation, ordering one's life and guiding one's goals. The RC believer uses the personae of the saints for the same purpose. Both the devotee of Krshna and the Roman Catholic know the saint or deva is not God, merely a starting point for prayer, devotion and meditation.

The Godhead never incarnates, God is God and can be tangible to the Creation of His making. Again that is a limitation of Creatiure (any part of creation), not of God.

Regards,

Scott

[Don Penguinoini]

A deva is god affected by maya (he/she lets maya affect him for the sake of an avatar)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

We are expressions of God but we are not avtaars because we are only evolving towards our divinity, whereas an avtaar happens when God involves Himself in the human situation, thereby apparently restricting Himself while being fully aware of His reality all the time. We can't really know who an avtaar is, for God can come in any guise. But when we come across humans who seem to possess awesome spiritual powers, we dub them avataars. Avtaars rarely declare themselves to be avtaars. Even Krishna's best friend Arjuna did not know Krishna was an avtaar till a crucial moment.

I wasn't really arguing that we are avatars. I was saying that if he wants to argue that all devas are avatars, then we are avatars as well. My point was that devas and avatars are not synonymous. There is a functional distinction.

[Sonic247]

You were citing an example of an "avatar" that was MADE UP by some ad agency. Just because they use the same word does not mean it really is an avatar.

That doesn't prove the other Avatar stories weren't made up, I bet someone could get people to believe sometime in the future when the show is forgotten that it really happened, it's a very intresting story actually, I can't wait to see how season three goes.

Please, name an avatar of Kali.

Actually your probably right going by more Orthodox Hinduism, but like I said there are many different denominations, but I said you were probably right because many of the Avatars of Kali are self proclaimed, and for me it seems obvious they are just making a grab for fame and power-
Ramakrishna (1836–1886) and Sarada Devi (1853–1920). Ramakrishna is reported to have said to Swami Vivekananda, "He who was Rama and Krishna is now, in this body, Ramakrishna." Sarada Devi, who was married to Ramakrishna in a traditional Indian child marriage, is likewise considered by many to be an incarnation of Kali.
This is probably not the best example but I thought it was pretty interesting-
Bahá'u'lláh (1817–1892) the founder-prophet of the Bahá'í Faith, believed to be Kalki Avatar.
But they it’s wikipedia, what do they know, I know they have a lot of stuff wrong about Christianity so if someone is a devoted Hindu and says they are wrong I’ll believe it.