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Reload this Page Salvation only through belief in Jesus (beliefs, hell, doctrine, eternal)
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  #1  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:09 PM
Rorschach Offline
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Default Salvation only through belief in Jesus
Correct me if I am wrong. This goes out to Christians:

p1: Salvation and eternal life in heaven can only be obtained through belief in Jesus.
p2: You have to believe in Jesus at the time of death to be saved. (beeing a Christian as a child and then turning to another religion or atheism in adult life results in not going to heaven when you die)
p3: If you die not believing in Jesus then the train has left the station e.g. you get no more chances.

Are these premises correct according to Christianity?
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Correct me if I am wrong. This goes out to Christians:

p1: Salvation and eternal life in heaven can only be obtained through belief in Jesus.
p2: You have to believe in Jesus at the time of death to be saved. (beeing a Christian as a child and then turning to another religion or atheism in adult life results in not going to heaven when you die)
p3: If you die not believing in Jesus then the train has left the station e.g. you get no more chances.

Are these premises correct according to Christianity?
I used to be a Christian, first off, 2 and 3 are essentially the same option, I've heard once saved always saved, and death bed conversions, always thought the "death bed" conversions made little sense, as once could lead a life of savagery and "get in heaven " under a last minute technicality.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Correct me if I am wrong. This goes out to Christians:

p1: Salvation and eternal life in heaven can only be obtained through belief in Jesus.
p2: You have to believe in Jesus at the time of death to be saved. (beeing a Christian as a child and then turning to another religion or atheism in adult life results in not going to heaven when you die)
p3: If you die not believing in Jesus then the train has left the station e.g. you get no more chances.

Are these premises correct according to Christianity?
No. I think you base your argument on a very narrow view and a very literal view of the bible.
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2007, 05:44 PM
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What Christian doctrines adhere to these premises?
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2007, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Correct me if I am wrong. This goes out to Christians:

p1: Salvation and eternal life in heaven can only be obtained through belief in Jesus.
p2: You have to believe in Jesus at the time of death to be saved. (beeing a Christian as a child and then turning to another religion or atheism in adult life results in not going to heaven when you die)
p3: If you die not believing in Jesus then the train has left the station e.g. you get no more chances.

Are these premises correct according to Christianity?
p1: Yes, I think all Christians would say this is correct ~ although I would not (I'm not Christian)!

p2: Some would say that this is correct, others not! There is no uniformity of knowledge in any religion!

p3: Again, I guess most Christians would agree, but I think not all.

PLU
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2007, 09:03 PM
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not every christian believes heaven is a literal place. My father, of all people (read:superconservative) believes it's a state of mind. His beliefs sound like he is explaining a sort of psuedo-nirvana, but I'm just glad that he is open minded.
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2007, 12:35 AM
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I would say that Christians agree with this but disagree with it at the same time. They agree because it says in the Bible that the only way to the father is through the son (p1). It also says that hell is a place of suffering.

So the question that arises is "What happens to Africans in 500 AD that never had the chance ot hears of Jesus? What happens to miscarried babies?"

Christians are in a bind. They either have to admit that there is a way to salvation not through Jesus; have to admit that hell is not such a bad place overall; or make up rules not found in the Bible. For example, someone once told me that if you never hear of Jesus you automatically go to heaven. This would mean that Christianity and all records of Jesus erased so everyone could go to heaven.
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2007, 01:12 AM
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For example, someone once told me that if you never hear of Jesus you automatically go to heaven. This would mean that Christianity and all records of Jesus erased so everyone could go to heaven.
It would also mean that all these Christian missionaries are condemning more people to hell than they are "saving."
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2007, 03:51 AM
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I would say that Christians agree with this but disagree with it at the same time.
Which group of christians? Who said what?

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It also says that hell is a place of suffering.
Jesus himself said in Matt 10:28 that the soul is destroyed in hell. And Gen 3:22 says that we don't have eternal life, something only Jesus offered. Not all christians believe in eternal torment for those who reject salvation.

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Christians are in a bind.
Who? Which ones? That's only your 10th post so you are new here, but I think you will find that there are many types of christians around here and it pays not to paint with too broad a brushstroke if one can help it.

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For example, someone once told me that if you never hear of Jesus you automatically go to heaven.
And I suppose they represent all of christianity? You know, many will point to the fact that there are two resurrections in the book of Revelation, and that everyone will get a chance to believe and be saved, including those who don't quite get it here and now. Imho, that view is the most consistent with a loving God.
Last edited by rocketman; 12-11-2007 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Gen 3:22 was 2:22 My bad
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2007, 08:46 AM
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This is just wrong.
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