Maitreya explains what the 1000 years means (ritual, Earth, beliefs, mission) - Page 6

Popeyesays · #51 05-10-2008, 01:31 PM

[quote=Popeyesays;1150601]The verse from The Heghts is insufficient:
007.024
YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
PICKTHAL: He said: Go down (from hence), one of you a foe unto the other. There will be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a while.
SHAKIR: He said: Get forth, some of you, the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.
007.025
YUSUFALI: He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
PICKTHAL: He said: There shall ye live, and there shall ye die, and thence shall ye be brought forth.
SHAKIR: He (also) said: Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised.

The verse refers to Judgment Day, not reincarnation and such is obvious to anyone who has read the rest of the Qur'an.

As to what "Judgment Day" is or is not, that deserves its own topic. Yusuf Ali's translation of the verse is closer to its true intent than Shakir or Pickthall.
YUSUFALI: He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays · #52 05-10-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Scott: "Define "troops". Are you still getting American Baha`i? Even though you're resigned from the faith?"

"Troops". What I mean here is that everyone on the planet will become Bahais, and they will enter the Bahai Faith in great numbers. I am not an American. Why are you so worried about me being attached to the Bahai Faith? I resigned about four or five years ago, and they accepted.

I think Maitreya's explanation is much clearer. Also, where is a quote from the prophets of the Bahai Faith, Bab or Bahaullah? You say that Abdul-baha is scripture, that is, Abdul-baha's words are from God. The Bahais are indeed saying this, that Abdul-baha's words are from God, which is the same as, 'direct from God', therefore, Bahais make Abdul-baha a prophet, at the same time say he is not a prophet. Bahaullah said to turn to Abdul-baha in order to guide the Bahai Religion to its God given destination, and that has already been done.

I cannot make sense of Abdul-baha's writing on reincarnation, perhaps you can explain. What would be the point if you can't understand. Please expain what that writing of Abdul-baha where he talks about reincarnation.

Abdu'l Baha's role is like Peter's role--not to be the Messenger b ut the one left in authoirty for interpretation after the passing of the Messenger.

T`u'llah, not servant of God.

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays · #53 05-10-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Scott: "Define "troops". Are you still getting American Baha`i? Even though you're resigned from the faith?"

"Troops". What I mean here is that everyone on the planet will become Bahais, and they will enter the Bahai Faith in great numbers. I am not an American. Why are you so worried about me being attached to the Bahai Faith? I resigned about four or five years ago, and they accepted.

I think Maitreya's explanation is much clearer. Also, where is a quote from the prophets of the Bahai Faith, Bab or Bahaullah? You say that Abdul-baha is scripture, that is, Abdul-baha's words are from God. The Bahais are indeed saying this, that Abdul-baha's words are from God, which is the same as, 'direct from God', therefore, Bahais make Abdul-baha a prophet, at the same time say he is not a prophet. Bahaullah said to turn to Abdul-baha in order to guide the Bahai Religion to its God given destination, and that has already been done.

I cannot make sense of Abdul-baha's writing on reincarnation, perhaps you can explain. What would be the point if you can't understand. Please expain what that writing of Abdul-baha where he talks about reincarnation.

Entry by Troops is a process, in almost exactly 164 years, the Faith of Baha`u'llah has grown from a single follower (Mulla Husayn) to aprroximately seven million.
Nowhere is it said that everyone will become Baha`i by the way some will remain within their own cultural faiths. It's the Most Great Peace that is to encompass the earth not the Baha`i Faith.

Regards,
Scott

YmirGF · #54 05-10-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Your ways of talking are old fashion, all of you, Ymir, Scott, Tau. The whole truth is with Maitreya, i.e., "the mystery of God should be finished with the Seventh Angel.

Would you be willing to place a wager on this bit of fluff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

The reason your words sound old fashion to me is that none of you incorporate all the religious teachings that God has given us, as is done in the Greatest Sign. 'someone', has told you reincarnation is not true, God surly did not. You cann't just say reincarnation is untrue, it doesnt work that way, far too many already believe in it.

LOL. Um, I heartily suspect that I know a good deal more about reincarnation and "pure consciousness" than you will likely learn in this short romp on Earth, friend. Given the rambling blather provided in TOTH, I would suggest that your dear Maitreya, doesn't have the foggiest idea about the subject of reincarnation either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Ymir, what about the people who have never heard about Jesus, do they enter the, "lake of fire"? Or is the, "lake of fire", merely this troubled world and how we understand it?

Um... what "lake of fire" would that be,other than perhaps the psychotic ramblings of the delusional, that is? Other than this names are irrelevant. One need only learn to touch their source. All the rest is mere window dressing for the easily impressed.

drew22 · #55 05-10-2008, 03:43 PM

Scott: "The verse refers to Judgment Day, not reincarnation and such is obvious to anyone who has read the rest of the Qur'an."

Drew: However, it said:
" On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." (Qur'an)

Yes, "for a time", this can mean many lifetimes.

"YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
PICKTHAL: He said: Go down (from hence), one of you a foe unto the other. There will be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a while.
SHAKIR: He said: Get forth, some of you, the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.
007.025
YUSUFALI: He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
PICKTHAL: He said: There shall ye live, and there shall ye die, and thence shall ye be brought forth.
SHAKIR: He (also) said: Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. "

Sounds like reincarnation to me, look it says:"Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. "

Let me tell you something about reincarnation. The purpose of the entire creation, everthing in existance, is to help us realize God and return to Him. That is the sole reason for this creation we live in. What it says here is: "Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. " Living in this world will make us realize God, we will be, "raised". So we live here and die, but it is also here, on earth, or wherever, "from it", we are raised. Yes we are, "raised", to what?, towards God of course. It does not say in the afterlife we are, "raised", but in this world or creation we are raised, assumingly, raised up to God. So some, of course, are not going to find God as fast as others, this is the truth. So why would you say that reincarnation does not exist? You are not being fair to those who take a long time and a lot of living to realize God. Living in this world makes us realize God, that is why this world is here. Anyways, if you only believe in this this material world what choice have you got when you die but to return to this world, and if you are connected with God when you die then you have no other place to be except with God. Heaven and hell are not a place but a state of being.

So to sum up, yes, I agree there is a heaven, but it is not just given to us just for only believing, and I think the Bahais know this, but from reading the teachings of Bab/Bahaullah, "the Goal", this is going to be quite difficult to do in our short lives.

drew22 · #56 05-10-2008, 03:51 PM

Scott, I just caught you last post, good one!

Scott: "It's the Most Great Peace that is to encompass the earth not the Baha`i Faith."

So Maitreya is the messiah!

I noticed you shy away from explaining Abdul-baha's meaning of reincarnation. Do you even know what it means? Are you suppost to know what it means?

Popeyesays · #57 05-10-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Scott, I just caught you last post, good one!

Scott: "It's the Most Great Peace that is to encompass the earth not the Baha`i Faith."

So Maitreya is the messiah!

I noticed you shy away from explaining Abdul-baha's meaning of reincarnation. Do you even know what it means? Are you suppost to know what it means?

Not according to the Aqdas, no. My opinion, of course.

I left the essay on reincarnation without further explanation, as I didn't think anything more was necessary.

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays · #58 05-10-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew22

Scott: "The verse refers to Judgment Day, not reincarnation and such is obvious to anyone who has read the rest of the Qur'an."

Drew: However, it said:
" On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." (Qur'an)

Yes, "for a time", this can mean many lifetimes.

"YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
PICKTHAL: He said: Go down (from hence), one of you a foe unto the other. There will be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a while.
SHAKIR: He said: Get forth, some of you, the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.
007.025
YUSUFALI: He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
PICKTHAL: He said: There shall ye live, and there shall ye die, and thence shall ye be brought forth.
SHAKIR: He (also) said: Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. "

Sounds like reincarnation to me, look it says:"Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. "

Let me tell you something about reincarnation. The purpose of the entire creation, everthing in existance, is to help us realize God and return to Him. That is the sole reason for this creation we live in. What it says here is: "Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and from it shall you be raised. " Living in this world will make us realize God, we will be, "raised". So we live here and die, but it is also here, on earth, or wherever, "from it", we are raised. Yes we are, "raised", to what?, towards God of course. It does not say in the afterlife we are, "raised", but in this world or creation we are raised, assumingly, raised up to God. So some, of course, are not going to find God as fast as others, this is the truth. So why would you say that reincarnation does not exist? You are not being fair to those who take a long time and a lot of living to realize God. Living in this world makes us realize God, that is why this world is here. Anyways, if you only believe in this this material world what choice have you got when you die but to return to this world, and if you are connected with God when you die then you have no other place to be except with God. Heaven and hell are not a place but a state of being.

So to sum up, yes, I agree there is a heaven, but it is not just given to us just for only believing, and I think the Bahais know this, but from reading the teachings of Bab/Bahaullah, "the Goal", this is going to be quite difficult to do in our short lives.

I'm sorry you are getting misleading information about Islam and the Qur'an.

We will all be raised from the grave on Judgment Day. One life, one death, one resurrection.

Only a fool would think this expresses reincarnation as an Islamic belief.

Regards,
Scott