Christianity (priest, rituals, bible, baptism, religion)

[Shadow Wolf]

It might take a degree in psychology to understand how wrong this statement is. In the end, clinical psychologists would be a psychologist to make that statement and more often then not clinical psychologists do no base their ideas on evidence.

I do remember when I took a course in psychology, about a year ago, meditation, prayer, and other states of mind had an entire chapter dedicated to them. And not once did it mention any negative effects. Actually, it didn't mention too many positive benefits. It did mention the brain waves do indeed change though.
Also, there is not one law in psychology, it is nothing but theories.

At least 10 studies of the effects of prayer have been carried out in the last six years, with mixed results. The new study was intended to overcome flaws in the earlier investigations. The report was scheduled to appear in The American Heart Journal next week, but the journal's publisher released it online yesterday.

Thus, any actual data is inconclusive. You can't even have a theory if the results are not repeatable.

"One conclusion from this is that the role of awareness of prayer should be studied further," said Dr. Charles Bethea, a cardiologist at Integris Baptist Medical Center in Oklahoma City and a co-author of the study.

And with mixed results, further studies is the only logical thing to do before any valid conclusion can be drawn.

Dean Marek, a chaplain at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., and a co-author of the report, said the study said nothing about the power of personal prayer or about prayers for family members and friends.
Working in a large medical center like Mayo, Mr. Marek said, "You hear tons of stories about the power of prayer, and I don't doubt them."

Another variable to be considered, and the co-author admitting he does not doubt the power of prayer (allthough IMHO, that is not good science)

But they said that being aware of the strangers' prayers also may have caused some of the patients a kind of performance anxiety.
"It may have made them uncertain, wondering am I so sick they had to call in their prayer team?" Dr. Bethea said.

Again, it points to prayer being a placebo effect, if anything at all.

At least one earlier study found lower complication rates in patients who received intercessory prayers; others found no difference. A 1997 study at the University of New Mexico, involving 40 alcoholics in rehabilitation, found that the men and women who knew they were being prayed for actually fared worse.

I think it is safe to say, prayer will work, it won't work, or it will give the person a frame of mind where they depend on the supernatural to help them through, rather than helping themselves.

If a sugar pill can heal, then why not prayer? It is indeed possible many patients thought the situation was much worse since they knew they were being prayed for.

But again, you have to have results that can be consistently repeated to have a theory. And, correlation does not mean causation.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Luke Wolf

But again, you have to have results that can be consistently repeated to have a theory. And, correlation does not mean causation.

And that is where the study fails because the results are not repeatable: "At least 10 studies of the effects of prayer have been carried out in the last six years, with mixed results."

The placebo effect is real. It is mind over matter. I have seen how it works. I can't imagine an Atheist improving with prayer and I can imagine one getting worse. However if you are thinking that prayer is an automatic thing where you press a button and healing results, think again. There are three elements involved: 1. The person(s)praying 2. The person prayed for 3. God.

[Shadow Wolf]

There are three elements involved: 1. The person(s)praying 2. The person prayed for 3. God.

Yes, these variables do need to be taken into consideration. Even the God being prayed to can have an effect on what results are produced.

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

Originally Posted by dvergur

Yeah, I sing every now and again but not with a bunch of nut jobs about harry potter. Usually about dancing, jive talking and nights on broadway and by myself. And I hardly ever preach

Where does Harry Potter come into all of this? *confused*

[logician]

Belief in prayer is like belief in sasquatch, very fervent in the believers.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by logician

Belief in prayer is like belief in sasquatch, very fervent in the believers.

I have never seen a platypus. I have seen picturesand I take it on faith that the pictures were not altered and that the testimony of the authors that it is a real creature, is true.

On the other hand I have personal experience with prayer. I have more reason to believe that answered prayer is real than I do that the platypus is real.