Further Pain for the BOM (reject, beliefs, grace, Mormonism)

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

we crossed... Try This Salt Lake Tribune - Mormons, Mayans and Mystery

This one works, thank you.

As for the OP: So what?

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

I've said before - the evidence isn't going to ever prove what most people believe about the BoM. You know, things like it taking place over the entire continent, or that the only people around were the decendants of Lehi. Those things very likely are not true, not just because of the physical evidence to the contrary, but because those beliefs are not consistent with what the Book says.

The LDS people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that many of the things they were taught in Primary about the BoM are not true or even consistent with the book (the anti's are going to have to come to terms with this too and start looking at the actual book and not the Primary version). Some will fight this, others will be okay with it. This leads to a better understanding of what the Book says, though, not necessarily to a rejection of the Book. The understanding of the Book and the archeological evidence will end up meeting somewhere in the middle of where they are right now.

I'm not sure i understand what youa re talking about. the Same doctrines i leanred in primary are the same ones i learn about in sunday school and in church now a days. and we still teach from the same books printed 50 years ago.

I'm not sure what you mean.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

I'm not sure i understand what youa re talking about. the Same doctrines i leanred in primary are the same ones i learn about in sunday school and in church now a days. and we still teach from the same books printed 50 years ago.

I'm not sure what you mean.

I'm not talking about doctrines. I'm talking about beliefs about the geography, history, etc. of the Nephites and Lamanites.

These types of issues don't usually come up in the manuals - and aren't important to the doctrine, which is what Sunday School and the other classes are all about. For example, I'm not aware of a manual that talks about the last Nephite battle taking place in New York. If there is one, though, I would expect it to change in the future - because it is highly unlikely that this is the case.

Just don't be surprised if there is a change in how people view the BoM in historical/geographical terms in the future. It's already started, as can be seen in the article that is listed (specifically, the term "principle ancestors" will not be present in the introduction to the BoM anymore - which is a good thing, cuz I don't think it ever should have been there in the first place).

See my thread about the geography of the BoM if you want any more of my thoughts on the issue. I'm not going to re-type them here.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Just don't be surprised if there is a change in how people view the BoM in historical/geographical terms in the future. It's already started, as can be seen in the article that is listed (specifically, the term "principle ancestors" will not be present in the introduction to the BoM anymore - which is a good thing, cuz I don't think it ever should have been there in the first place).

Meh. I wouldn't overly worry about people trying to punch holes in Mormon history. I mean sheeesh, look at Jonah and the Big Fish story, Noah and the Ark, Daniel in the Lion's Den, among other impossible to corroborate facts in the bible and I'm sure the BOM has less debatable historical points by far.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

Meh. I wouldn't overly worry about people trying to punch holes in Mormon history. I mean sheeesh, look at Jonah and the Big Fish story, Noah and the Ark, Daniel in the Lion's Den, among other impossible to corroborate facts in the bible and I'm sure the BOM has less debatable historical points by far.

Yeah, but you've got to remember that we believe those too

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Yeah, but you've got to remember that we believe those too

I know. But, that's where that handy little word called, "faith" comes in perfectly.

I don't understand why LDS get picked on so much by other Christian denominations. Just makes it much harder to be a united front for Christ to the unwashed billions like me.

[gnomon]

I understand that Mormons have been tirelessly harassed I don't think this thread constitutes simple harassment or spite.

Any organization, religious or not, which makes historical claims should be able to back them up to scrutiny. Even harsh criticism of the claims of North American history by the LDS cannot simply be equated as criticism of the church. Even inside the Christian faith change in worldviews was brought about by the biggest critics within and not from without.

In other words, I think Melissa has put forth a valid thread. Of course, it seems there are already numerous other threads on this subject and I have not taken the time to read them all through before this one.

I think the LDS could successfully weather criticisms of its historical claims and even alter their historiography successfully without losing sight of its function.

[Random]

History as taught is always a lie, or @ the very least comprised of inconsistent half-truths. Study dialectics to find out why this is always so. The only rational (read: coherent) justification for action is basing it in the here-and-now, on what demands urgency and immediacy. As for Mormons, they're relatively harmless, as I find anyway.