What did Jesus know and when did He know it? (Messiah, gospel) - Page 3

Scott1 · #21 10-28-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Thank you for bringing the Catholic perspective to the table Scott.

You're welcome.... to be clear, this is the teaching of both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches....

UnityNow101 · #22 10-28-2007, 11:25 PM

Yes, I believe that it does exclude him from being God-incarnate. The main reason being that he had to gain in knowledge, something that God would never have to do. If he had a mission, there had to be one that had sent him on that mission. The one that gave Jesus his mission to humanity was God Almighty.

lunamoth · #23 10-28-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott1

You're welcome.... to be clear, this is the teaching of both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches....

Yes, and Anglican as well.

But do you think it possible/probable that Jesus did not know this about himself until the Resurrection?

lunamoth · #24 10-28-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnityNow101

Yes, I believe that it does exclude him from being God-incarnate. The main reason being that he had to gain in knowledge, something that God would never have to do. If he had a mission, there had to be one that had sent him on that mission. The one that gave Jesus his mission to humanity was God Almighty.

What do you think of this, from Scott's post #11:

Quote:

Jesus became human at the moment of his conception, but was always divine.... but this was understood (over time through the teaching of the Church councils --- Ephesus/Chalcedon/Constantanople in 553 and 681) in the context that the human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, "increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man", and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking "the form of a slave".

lunamoth · #25 10-28-2007, 11:40 PM

To broaden the discussion: If Jesus was a gnostic, what did he know?

Scott1 · #26 10-28-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Yes, and Anglican as well.

Cool... didn't know that.

Quote:

But do you think it possible/probable that Jesus did not know this about himself until the Resurrection?

Possibly.... the notion that he continued to "increase in wisdom and in stature" kinda implies that the fullness of his divinity was not fully "put into play" from the moment of his birth. Look at the wedding at Cana: it was his mother that prompted the start of his public ministry after it looked like Jesus wanted no part of it.... once Mary told the servants "Do whatever he tells you"... Jesus kinda went: "Geeez Mommy..... FINE..... I'll do it"

S

s2a · #27 10-29-2007, 12:05 AM

To me, this OP question begs of another...

"If Jesus was delivered/reincarnated/returned to the 'here and now', what 'evidence' would He provide to 'prove' His divine nature to either believers or non-believers?"

Can ANY claim of some divine "source" be substantiated?

If so, is is not open to potential falsification?

w00t · #28 10-29-2007, 01:52 AM

I think Jesus was an intelligent human.

sojourner · #29 10-29-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2a

To me, this OP question begs of another...

"If Jesus was delivered/reincarnated/returned to the 'here and now', what 'evidence' would He provide to 'prove' His divine nature to either believers or non-believers?"

Can ANY claim of some divine "source" be substantiated?

If so, is is not open to potential falsification?

Jesus didn't do that the first time around...