You Don't KNOW, You Only Believe! (ritual, beliefs, evolve, spiritual)

[Willamena]

I don't know you've been pacing; I have no evidence. Only you have the evidence in this instance, so only you know that you've been pacing.

I would say rather that evidence is essential to knowing.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Willamena

I don't know you've been pacing; I have no evidence.

Of course you do: the evidence is that he told you.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Storm

Of course you do: the evidence is that he told you.

I can't make that claim. I know that he said he's been pacing, but that's not the same thing.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

An estranged mother and daughter make up on the mother's deathbed, alone, the mother's last words are "I'm so sorry, I love you". No evidence but the daughter knows what happened.

The daughter has the evidence of her senses. She saw and heard her mother say it. One could hardly ask for more convincing evidence than that.

Nobody else has, or can have, evidence that compelling -- just hearsay. However, even the daughter's account of what happened is evidence, too, although it's not conclusive evidence.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

However, even the daughter's account of what happened is evidence, too, although it's not conclusive evidence.

Right. Witness testimony is evidence that a thing happened, yes; but for the person hearing it it's not knowing. It's knowledge about the event.

[Draka]

Sensory perceptions cannot be considered evidence. Especially when trying to convince someone else. You can indeed know something without evidence.

I walked into a warm room and got a cold chill and goosebumps. I then saw the clear profiled shadow of a person walking by a television set when there was no one walking there. Do I know I experienced something paranormal? Yes. Do I have any evidence to provide anyone else other than my word? No. Can someone else believe I experienced something paranormal without me providing tangible physical evidence? Yes. Depending on their own experiences, perceptions, and level of trust in me.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Willamena

I don't know you've been pacing; I have no evidence. Only you have the evidence in this instance, so only you know that you've been pacing.

I would say rather that evidence is essential to knowing.

If you accept Goldman's causal theory of knowledge then it becomes clear that you only need to be justified in trusting Storm in order to know that he paced since there would still be a causal connection between your belief and the portion of reality that your belief is about.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Draka

Sensory perceptions cannot be considered evidence. Especially when trying to convince someone else. You can indeed know something without evidence.

I walked into a warm room and got a cold chill and goosebumps. I then saw the clear profiled shadow of a person walking by a television set when there was no one walking there. Do I know I experienced something paranormal? Yes. Do I have any evidence to provide anyone else other than my word? No. Can someone else believe I experienced something paranormal without me providing tangible physical evidence? Yes. Depending on their own experiences, perceptions, and level of trust in me.

Must things be only evidenced to others to be "evidence"? (I say no.) Trying to convince others of something evidenced to you simply says that it's important to you what they think (and while that's okay, it's not necessarily important to others).

[w00t]

Originally Posted by Draka

Sensory perceptions cannot be considered evidence. Especially when trying to convince someone else. You can indeed know something without evidence.

I walked into a warm room and got a cold chill and goosebumps. I then saw the clear profiled shadow of a person walking by a television set when there was no one walking there. Do I know I experienced something paranormal? Yes. Do I have any evidence to provide anyone else other than my word? No. Can someone else believe I experienced something paranormal without me providing tangible physical evidence? Yes. Depending on their own experiences, perceptions, and level of trust in me.

Having had many similar experiences in our 'haunted' house where the temperature went down to -15C on a hot summer's day, I believe you had an experience, which appeared to be paranormal. However, in spite of the weird things that happen here on an almost daily basis I don't believe in the supernatural and think that in time science will provide an explantion!

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

If you accept Goldman's causal theory of knowledge then it becomes clear that you only need to be justified in trusting Storm in order to know that he paced since there would still be a causal connection between your belief and the portion of reality that your belief is about.

As I'm not familar with it, I can honestly say I neither accept nor reject it.

I simply make a clear distinction between knowing (the most certain bits of "reality") and knowing about (second-hand information).