Do You Know Why You Don't Believe? (beliefs, experience, atheist)

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

There comes a time when there is no point in arguing with certain individuals. How many times does one backtrack over the same path?

Once the veil was lifted from my eyes I saw the universe as evidence of God. I realized that it should have been obvious. The earth is too beautiful to be a series of incredible accidents, like a million needles creating themselves and then stacking themselves one on top of another, end to end.

Which is more logical? That particles created themselves and then created time and life or that some intelligence is behind it all for a reason that you just haven't figured out yet?

It's more logical that particles are eternal.

The problem with your argument is that some had to produce the creator. You seem to think that "particles creating themselves and then creating time and life" is illogical, but that is what you believe, since the particels that make up your creator had to come about somehow. If the creator didn't have a creator, then the particels that make him up created themselves.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by mball1297

It's more logical that particles are eternal.

The problem with your argument is that some had to produce the creator. You seem to think that "particles creating themselves and then creating time and life" is illogical, but that is what you believe, since the particels that make up your creator had to come about somehow. If the creator didn't have a creator, then the particels that make him up created themselves.

Something had to produce the Creator? And something had to produce particles? It's the same problem either way.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Something had to produce the Creator? And something had to produce particles? It's the same problem either way.

That's my point. You think it's logical to assume that something created the universe, because how else would it get here? The problem is that then you have to explain how the creator got here. It doesn't solve the problem, it only moves it somewhere else. I say it's illogical to assume that there must be a creator. I don't say it's illogical to assume there might be a creator.

[Sonic247]

If I tell you that I know someone who has a mustache, do you assume it's a man?

Probably, but I definately assume it's a person.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Sonic247

Probably, but I definately assume it's a person.

The point is you can't assume that that person is a man any more than I can assume that the universe was created by God. Is it possible? Sure. Is it necessarily true? No.

Basically, the attribute "having a mustache" is associated with men, but isn't necessarily a male trait. Is it possible that the person with the mustache is a man? Sure. Is it necessarily true? No.

[BalanceFx]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

There is no evidence to support your disbelief.

It is ironic that you ask those who disbelieve in god to provide hard evidence which you yourself can not provide for a belief in god. My words were its your personal beleif.

When you go outside and look around you see the hand of god. I see carbon based lifeforms evolving over time.

My view is not spiritual, I will normally reject irrational and unprovable things. You don't need evidence to dis-believe in something if there is no evidence to believe in it in the first place. Do you believe in unicorns and leprechauns? The Book of Mormons and the egyptions have some references to the Coutl.. Do you believe in them as well?

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

What you need to do is stop thinking that if God existed then your life would be better. And you need to stop arguing with others who's minds you can't change since you have no evidence to support your belief.

uhhhhh.......RIght back at ya...!!!!

[Riverwolf]

Just so we're all clear, I have only read the first post here, and am answering the question.

I'd say the reason I'm not a Christian insofar that I don't accept Jesus as divine is mainly out of pride. Yeah, I know that's what got Lucifer kicked out, but I don't want to bow down in submission to anything or anybody, god or otherwise. I will bow in respect, just so we all are clear on that; if I ever met YHWH in person, I would bow out of respect for being in the presence of a god. But I wouldn't submit. I don't claim to be "higher" than the gods, however, nor do I want to be a god myself. I'm content as a human being, and I don't need any supernatural powers to make my life "better," as I know I would just be corrupted by the power. (So if the satan offered me eternal power in exchange for my soul, I'd decline for the same reason as above, that I will not bow in submission.)

In fact, I do not worship any god, even the celestial ones from whom I take lessons in spirituality. I consider them to be teachers, nothing more. I don't think it would be appropriate to say I don't "believe" in them, as I do believe in their existence. So YHWH does exist in my eyes, but I don't worship him. If the question, however, is also asking why I don't believe, meaning that I don't trust them to be telling the truth, is because the only supposed source of these "promises" is a millenia-year-old book that has seen more versions of the same English translation than Street Fighter 2, let alone the different versions that are found in various other languages. And how can we be sure that the Hebrew/Greek versions that you can find here and there are legitimate? Sure, they make grammatical sense by modern standards, but can we be absolutely sure that they also haven't been watered down by biased scholars and priests?

Now, if YHWH himself came to me in person, not in a dream, but physically, and it was obviously him, and he told me that [this] particular sect of Christianity was the true way, that's different. However, even though I would have renewed faith and could then be considered a Christian, I would not lose who I truly am: a pagan, and I would tell YHWH this. If it meant that I would burn forever in the lake of fire, so be it.