Do You Know Why You Don't Believe? (beliefs, experience, atheist)

[Runt]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Which came first...
The belief...
or the reason...?

Always the reason. Even if that reason is only "I'm five years old, my mommy is always right, and my mommy told me God exists". The idea has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere generally lends itself to a reason.

[Tau]

I get you Super Universe.

I know what you are trying to say.

I agree that the universe is very peculiar and full of purpose.

I think you are a seeker and I also think you are doing fine.

Patience my friend.

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Hehe, what real debate? If a ten year old child wants to pick a fight with a grown man, what should the grown man do?

Jerry Falwell's play book, Rule #21: When in danger, trivialize and insult your opponent.

[OnePerson'sWords]

I neither believe or disbelieve in God. I simply don't know. I like the idea of there being a God but can't bring myself to pretend that there is when I really don't know. The truth is, I am really intolerant of people of deep faith. I just don't like the fact that people think they have the answers. I doubt that we will ever understand the whole truth about the existence of the universe. There are some things we just aren't supposed to know.

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Tau

Well the thing is you see I havent read all 89 plus pages and don't intend to so I couldn't possibly comment on content, what I can say is however is that you need honey to catch bees...if you get my meaning.

Actually Tau, you should go back and read the thread from the start. It is quite humorous.

Originally Posted by Tau

I am not particularly nice you see, i tend to think that this world might be a better place if humanity was wiped from it, it might be for the best, but I shall endeavor to do what I can to prevent it, what the hell it might turn out ok, for the greater good.

Well, there is a real ray of sunshine, lol. Given that you say "you think this world might be a better place if humanity was wiped from it" it is rather likely that your ability to act to prevent it will be fairly half-hearted.

Originally Posted by Tau

I get you Super Universe.

I know what you are trying to say.

I agree that the universe is very peculiar and full of purpose.

I think you are a seeker and I also think you are doing fine.

Patience my friend.

Ok, as you understand S_U, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what he is saying.
BTW: I'm not entirely sure that S_U would consider himself to be a mere seeker. He is already a "wingmaker" after all.

To S_U: Greetings o' fiesty one. Long time, no babble. I am curious if you would be inclined to talk to "TruthAboutGod" in his/her/its thread Ask your questions about God here. I have a feeling that a discussion between the two of you would be a remarkable thing to behold. Go on... it could be fun.

[s2a]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Well if you'd slow down you would notice that the quote was about s2a, not you.

And I'm probably twice your age there bud.

Dude.

I'm fifty years old. Just 50. Only 50. Yet...50. So what?

Your continued evasion stands--as uncomfortably recorded--within this forum...all ad hominem allusions and insinuations not withstanding.

Let's recall for your own benefit that you instigated this thread, and proposed the OP question.

Again, for the third time, I tell you that your (prepositionally) challenging inquiry HAS been ANSWERED...and you have both deflected and ignored that consummately provided answer henceforth...most inelegantly.

Will you not answer, or can you not?

Inquiring minds and lurkers would like to know...

Whither shall we look to the validations of your proffered insights and wisdom?

In your accumulated years?

In your unique insights?

In your tactical implementations of evasion and escape?

Within some archaic texts of mixed metaphors and insistent claims of informed "knowledge?

What feeds your ego of certainty and insistence? What?

So far, the substance of you position seems to be rooted within the self-serving assertion that you "know better" than the rest of us wayward fools and children.

Perhaps that is so...perhaps not.

As Missourians are famously noted to say..."Don't tell me, show me."

C'mon, Mister "Super Universe"...enlighten us all with your sage wisdoms and enlightened truths begat of the years of experience and deliverance, available to only but the most aged and tested of we mortal humans...like you.

Be the prophet of unique revelation you were born to sell to the masses of the great unwashed, young and old alike.

Or, in the meantime, perhaps you might muster the temerity and courage to succinctly answer the lesser "trivialties" of those most discomfiting challenges upon the claims you espouse as truth, especially amongst us most severely unenlightened mortals?

I promise that I won't characterize you as "too old" to appreciate or understand five decades of life experience as exemplar for myself. I promise that I will only fairly criticize the value/merit of the arguments you present as being either supportive, or as validation of, the "truths" you care to share as being undeniable and universal in application and interpretation.

[Tau]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Well, there is a real ray of sunshine, lol. Given that you say "you think this world might be a better place if humanity was wiped from it" it is rather likely that your ability to act to prevent it will be fairly half-hearted.

Ok, as you understand S_U, perhaps you could enlighten us as to what he is saying.
BTW: I'm not entirely sure that S_U would consider himself to be a mere seeker. He is already a "wingmaker" after all.

Its my ideology YmirGF it forces me to try to do something anyway despite my reservations, its like Granny Weatherwax says 'Lets do some good'.

I think SU is, at least, basically saying that the whole point of the universe is to give life forms something to stand on, as for God, well I don't really know if I agree with a God or not, my concept of God might be radically different from SU's, but I agree with the premise outlined in the beginning of this paragraph.

I have already criticised SU's rather lofty attitude, but strength of conviction can easily turn to pride so it's normal I suppose, there are a number of people here who seem to fancy themselves as a messiah of some kind, but then we all are I guess, we all have our perception's message to bring.
Just hopefully a sense of proportion is retained....hehehe

Granny Weatherwax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia see her personality profile, thats more or less me in many ways.

Especially here...It has been said that Granny Weatherwax bears some similarity to Sam Vimes. Both are effectively 'good' characters who exert a rigid control over the darkness inside themselves, which they secretly fear.

Because of my build, my big canines (to be filed down soon as they cause problems) and shaven well punched in head my friends sing The Automatic's song Monster when I come down the street sometimes lol..hope that reveals...

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Runt

Always the reason. Even if that reason is only "I'm five years old, my mommy is always right, and my mommy told me God exists". The idea has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere generally lends itself to a reason.

I doubt an agnostic would accept "what mommy says" as a good reason for belief.

I tend to think that belief came first for me, then reason. My belief was in the God of the Bible and an agnostic will tell you that even that is not a good reason to believe.
The Bible told me I could pray to God and He would answer. I did pray and God did answer, so the belief was proved to be reasonable by experience. So where did my belief come from? My belief came from faith in the Bible. I can't really explain that other than to say when I read the Bible, I read it as truth. I can't say that anyone directed me into that view so it must have been a natural inclination, perhaps from a previous life.

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

Which came first...
The belief...
or the reason...?

For me belief came first. I believed that the Bible spoke the truth about God and then my experience with God vindicated the words in the Bible.

I can't explain why the Bible was truth to me instead of fiction. The only thing that makes sense to me is that there is something inside of me that recognizes truth. That might very well be something learned over several lifetimes but not having memory of that makes it difficult to say for sure.

I have seen this operate again when I was studying with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They would say something that seemed to make sense but later there would be a gnawing feeling inside that what they said wasn't true. Then I would search my Bible and find out what they said wasn't true (from a Biblical standpoint).