Do You Know Why You Don't Believe? (beliefs, experience, atheist)

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by LogDog

Everyone was once an atheist. We're born that way. At what age did you come to accept this theistic mentality and what changed in you that motivated this transformation? When you were an atheist, was it simply the fact that you thought god was represented by religions that motivated your atheism or were there other factors involved? If it hadn't been for your impression that religion represented god, would you have become a believer earlier? For most atheists, it's a lack of evidence for god that motivates their disbelief, was this not the case for yourself?

In my youth I considered myself a scientific athiest. I had to have the answers to all the complex questions first in order to believe. Religion was also a factor, one side of my family was Lutheran and the other Jehovah's Witness with a mixture of poor white trash added just for flavor.

I had a vision at age 22. It was simple but perfect, no more or less than what was needed. I knew that God existed and that He created the universe. This vision did not come from God, it was more like something that was scheduled to happen long before I was born in order to awaken me.

The problem was that even though I absolutely knew that God existed I had no other answers given to me. It's been a long journey and while I have many answers now I know I still have much farther to go.

The lack of evidence was my excuse for not believing in God but it wasn't the main reason. I was very upset at my situation. Why the hell was I born into such a mixed up group of people who were so damn ignorant and selfish when I was nothing at all like them? I blamed God.

Now, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Great, another angry and completely unnecessary reply. Since you obviously can't join the discussion in an intelligent manner, then don't respond at all!

Another unnecessary and uninformed post on my thoughts? So far, you're very poor at reading minds; I'm not angry at all. Do you suppose your ego is the reason for your rank presumption?

[Jose Fly]

S-U,

Some actual evidence? No, what you want is absolute evidence with no other possible interpretation otherwise you will simply continue to choose NOT to believe.

Don't presume to know what I want better than I do.

Again, all I ask for is evidence. To this point, you have provided none. Either you can offer evidence for your assertions or you can't. The more effort and time you put into avoiding providing any, the more weight you give to the notion that you have none.

Is that all I have? No, but it's ten times more than you have.

Than I have for what? You're the one going around making one unsubstantiated assertion after another. All I'm doing is evaluating your claims and asking you to provide some evidence.

So far you're doing rather poorly.

Life is completely natural? Then why isn't it in space? Why isn't it on the moon? On asteroids? On Mars and Venus?

I'm going to be completely honest with you, and I'm not saying anything about you personally....but that's a very, very stupid answer. Just because something is completely natural doesn't mean it should exist throughout the universe. Calcium is a completely natural substance, but <gasp> is it everywhere in the universe? No? Does "it doesn't exist in every location in the universe" = "it is non-natural"? If you think it does, you should explain further.

Point to something specific about life that is non-natural? Okay, spirit.

Where exactly can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

I do not assert that order cannot come from chaos - you shouldn't speak of dishonest tactics when you are doing the same thing. My assertion was that complex order cannot come from chaos.

First, don't accuse me of dishonesty unless you can point to a specific example of me doing so. Second, what is the measurable difference between "order" and "complex order"?

Chemistry operates via energy? What energy would that be? EMR?

You seriously don't know what energy drives chemical reactions? You have no idea at all? If not, I submit that you have no business commenting on anything to do with chemistry.

[Super Universe]

Evidence? I provided it, many times. Once again here it is, I'll take the universe. What's your evidence against God or is your only argument simply going to be "I'm not convinced"?

You compare life to... calcium? I won't say anything about you personally but... well you know.

Where can you find spirit in a cell? Where can you find neutrino's in an atom? What do neutrino's look like? What are it's components?

I seriously don't know what YOU think drives chemical reactions.

[Panda]

Neutrinos

The universe is not evidence for God, it in no way proves that God exists. Give some real evidence of God or focus on one particular thing.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by Panda

Neutrinos

The universe is not evidence for God, it in no way proves that God exists. Give some real evidence of God or focus on one particular thing.

Thanks for the Wiki link to neutrino's but nothing there explains where you can find neutrino's in an atom. Nothing there explains what neutrino's look like and your scientists understanding of them, and other quantum particles, is still in the primitive stage.

You want proof of God? Start your own topic on it, this thread is asking if you know why you don't believe and not a single one of you athiests have answered the OP yet. What are you all afraid of?

You have no proof of neutrino's either but I'd bet you believe in them now, don't you?

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Thanks for the Wiki link to neutrino's but nothing there explains where you can find neutrino's in an atom. Nothing there explains what neutrino's look like and your scientists understanding of them, and other quantum particles, is still in the primitive stage.

You want proof of God? Start your own topic on it, this thread is asking if you know why you don't believe and not a single one of you athiests have answered the OP yet. What are you all afraid of?

You have no proof of neutrino's either but I'd bet you believe in them now, don't you?

The reason I don't believe is there is no proof of God.

[LogDog]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

In my youth I considered myself a scientific athiest. I had to have the answers to all the complex questions first in order to believe.

What complex questions did you find answers for in your "scientific atheist" days that helped foster your belief in something for which there is no scientific evidence?

Originally Posted by Super Universe

I had a vision at age 22. It was simple but perfect, no more or less than what was needed. I knew that God existed and that He created the universe. This vision did not come from God, it was more like something that was scheduled to happen long before I was born in order to awaken me.

So it was a vision and not answers to complex questions that brought you to accept that a god exists? How do you decipher which visions come from god and which ones were scheduled to happen before you were born? What's the difference in the first place and how did you surmise that this vision was not the product of natural brain activity? Is there another explanation for this vision that doesn't elicit the supernatural?

Originally Posted by Super Universe

I was very upset at my situation. Why the hell was I born into such a mixed up group of people who were so damn ignorant and selfish when I was nothing at all like them? I blamed God.

Was this your attitude before or after you had your vision?

[Jose Fly]

S-U,

Evidence? I provided it, many times. Once again here it is, I'll take the universe.

Simply saying the word "universe" does not constitute providing evidence for your assertions any more than saying "wheelbarrow" constitutes providing evidence that badgers sectretly run the world.

Do you think anyone would find that at all compelling? No? Now you understand how we view your response.

Again, either you have evidence to support your assertions or you don't. The more effort and time you put into dodging providing any, the more credence you give to the notion that you have none.

What's your evidence against God or is your only argument simply going to be "I'm not convinced"?

You're the one making the positive assertion, i.e. that God exists. Therefore it falls upon you to substantiate that assertion.

You compare life to... calcium?

No. You need to pay closer attention.

You stated that life is non-natural and justified that assertion by arguing that if it wasn't, it would be everywhere in the universe. I simply applied your "logic" to something else, i.e. calcium. Calcium is natural, yet it is not everywhere in the universe. I therefore demonstrated that "natural" does not require "must be everywhere in the universe", thus exposing the fatal flaw in your argument.

If you disagree, I'll ask again: Does "natural" = "exists in every location in the universe"? If so, why?

Where can you find spirit in a cell? Where can you find neutrino's in an atom?

You're dodging yet another direct question. I said absolutely nothing about neutrinos.

Again: Where can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

The more effort and time you put into dodging these questions, the more weight you give to the notion that you can't answer them.

I seriously don't know what YOU think drives chemical reactions.

You were the one who asked if "EMR" drives chemical reactions in an apparent objection to my stating that chemistry is driven by energy.

Do you disagree that chemistry is driven by energy?