Do You Know Why You Don't Believe? (beliefs, experience, atheist)

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I know this is an old topic, but this is the 1st time I have come across it. But since someone has bump up this topic, I would like to address the earlier posts, between Super Universe and Buttercup.


Buttercup is more than reasonable in wanting evidence. Heck, I would like to see some evidences for myself. I don't see anything wrong with her "standard", as you've put it, as being reasonable proof. And I don't believe her ego have anything to do with it.

Your way thinking that she shouldn't have proof is far more egotistic and unreasonable.

But she does have evidence, a universe full of nothing but evidence. Do you trust a bridge that you know virtually nothing about? Do you trust a policeman who you've never met? Do you trust a building that you did not see every stone set in place? Do you trust gravity even though you don't know where it comes from? Do you believe the sun will shine tomorrow? How about the next day, and the next? You believe that the Eiffel Tower exists yet you've never stood on it?

You trust so many things that you barely know anything about yet you refuse to trust that this incredibly beautiful planet earth was intended.

You refuse because...

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by super universe

My evidence of God is this. Close your eyes. Step outside at night, then open them. "Taddah!"

Originally Posted by dirty penguin

And all you will see are stars.......maybe the moon....maybe some clouds.....nothing more/nothing less....

Originally Posted by willamena

Unless, of course, you see something more.

I see what Dirty Penguin see.

On occasion I may see a bird or two flying around at night. Perhaps, some insects. Perhaps, even a plane. Sometimes, the tree branches block my view of the sky. On stormy night, I would see some lightnings.

But still no fellow whom you call God.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

But she does have evidence, a universe full of nothing but evidence. Do you trust a bridge that you know virtually nothing about? Do you trust a policeman who you've never met? Do you trust a building that you did not see every stone set in place? Do you trust gravity even though you don't know where it comes from? Do you believe the sun will shine tomorrow? How about the next day, and the next? You believe that the Eiffel Tower exists yet you've never stood on it?

You trust so many things that you barely know anything about yet you refuse to trust that this incredibly beautiful planet earth was intended.

You refuse because...

You misunderstand what is evidence and what is not. The universe is not evidence of God because it could just as easily prove the non-existence of God. Evidence leads to a certain conclusion.

your argument here is a non sequitur. I believe those things because there is good reason to believe, and in some of the cases, it doesn't matter. I trust a building because I have to, and I've never had one collapse on me. I trust that the sun will come up because it has every day of my life. I believe the Eiffel Tower exists because I've stood next to it, and even if I hadn't, I could deny it exists, but who cares? the idea that there is a God has a whole lot of implications on my life. The existence of the Eiffel Tower does not.

I don't refuse to trust that this universe was created by a God. I just don't believe it. Why do you refuse to trust that it wasn't?

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by super universe

Do you trust a bridge that you know virtually nothing about?

No. I actually don't give much thought about the bridge. And I don't give much thought to trust either. So?

Originally Posted by super universe

Do you trust a policeman who you've never met?

No, I don't. And?

Originally Posted by super universe

Do you trust a building that you did not see every stone set in place?

Again, I don't understand this "trust" that you harping about. It is the furthest thing from my mind.

Originally Posted by super universe

Do you trust gravity even though you don't know where it comes from?

I know about gravity, but there's that dumb word again - "trust".

Originally Posted by super universe

Do you believe the sun will shine tomorrow? How about the next day, and the next?

I will not be surprise if it did or didn't, and again I don't give much thought of it.

Originally Posted by super universe

You believe that the Eiffel Tower exists yet you've never stood on it?

I have seen photos, drawings of it. My sister have been there, so I pretty sure I know it exist. The Eiffel Tower have substance. You can't say the same about this "god" of yours.

First of all you are comparing what exist and what don't exist. What can be experience and what can't be experienced. They are two different things. One has substance, and the others like God.

I know of the sun burning off gas, even though I have never been on the sun...which would be silly anyway. But have seen solar flare through the telescope with filters, so I know there is fire involved, even though I could not see it with my naked eye, without the use of the telescope. And the same time, I know that the sun give heat, because I can feel it on my skin on the cloudless sunny day.

All this have substance, which is more than I can say about god. Your points are pointless. You need a more substance with your argument.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by gnostic

I see what Dirty Penguin see.

On occasion I may see a bird or two flying around at night. Perhaps, some insects. Perhaps, even a plane. Sometimes, the tree branches block my view of the sky. On stormy night, I would see some lightnings.

But still no fellow whom you call God.

Why would you be looking for a "fellow"? Open your mind. God is not a humanoid being. He is a "being" unlike any other.

[mball1297]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Why would you be looking for a "fellow"? Open your mind. God is not a humanoid being. He is a "being" unlike any other.

Sure, but then I could call anything "God". Then where does that get me?

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by mball1297

You misunderstand what is evidence and what is not. The universe is not evidence of God because it could just as easily prove the non-existence of God. Evidence leads to a certain conclusion.

your argument here is a non sequitur. I believe those things because there is good reason to believe, and in some of the cases, it doesn't matter. I trust a building because I have to, and I've never had one collapse on me. I trust that the sun will come up because it has every day of my life. I believe the Eiffel Tower exists because I've stood next to it, and even if I hadn't, I could deny it exists, but who cares? the idea that there is a God has a whole lot of implications on my life. The existence of the Eiffel Tower does not.

I don't refuse to trust that this universe was created by a God. I just don't believe it. Why do you refuse to trust that it wasn't?

How exactly could the universe prove the non-existence of God? If you could actually answer this you would have a Nobel Prize awaiting...

You don't have to trust a building, you can refuse to enter it. You've never had one collapse on you? I think some people in China might have thought the same thing. You trust the sun will come up everyday in the future because it has everyday before? The past does not make the future. You are a very trusting sort, too trusting.

God's existence has exactly ZERO implications on your life because you already have a life. It's a gift, free from God. You already have a universe, earth, and body built to host you and you can do whatever you want with it. God doesn't prove Himself to you because that would violate your free will.

I see no good reason to believe in the existence of the Eiffel Tower. None. And there is nothing you can do to change my mind.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by mball1297

Sure, but then I could call anything "God". Then where does that get me?

Ah, so what's in it for you, huh? What do you get out of it other than a beautiful earth and a body, a life? That's not enough for you though, you wanted to be rich and famous as well.

Sigh...

[gnostic]

Originally Posted by super universe

Why would you be looking for a "fellow"? Open your mind. God is not a humanoid being. He is a "being" unlike any other.

None of your questions are relevant to the existence of god, and doesn't provide proof of ones.

So far, you haven't proven that this god is this universe. Or you have done is babble about "trust" in this and that.