Is God In Anyway Necessary? (moral, Creator, atheist, moral)

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

It depends on the use to which the apple is being put. And changing the perceived truth of the apple can be accomplished merely by changing perspective.

Then wouldn't the answer to your question be the same, "It depends" instead of the definitive "There are no things"?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Then wouldn't the answer to your question be the same, "It depends" instead of the definitive "There are no things"?

Sort of. The answer to the question "are all things one?" is both "yes" and "no."

[Storm]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

But all that is a product of consciousness as well, right? Change is a perception that depends on observation integrating with memory. Without the transaction between sensation and memory, how can there be change?

Dopp, I'm enjoying this conversation immensely, butI just woke up and I honestly can't tell whether I'm just explaining myself badly or you're trying to get me to see from a new perspective. I don't want to be stubborn, but I do want to be clear.

So with that understood, before we go any further, do you understand what I'm trying to say, or do I need to start over?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Storm

So with that understood, before we go any further, do you understand what I'm trying to say, or do I need to start over?

I think I reasonably understand what you are explaining. Though if I didn't, I wouldn't know, would I?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Sort of. The answer to the question "are all things one?" is both "yes" and "no."

That's what I thought, but my confusion arose because your question seems to have an implicit advocacy contrary to that (leading the witness, counselor ). I probably misread it.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

I think I reasonably understand what you are explaining.

OK, good.

Though if I didn't, I wouldn't know, would I?

With that out of the way....

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

But all that is a product of consciousness as well, right? Change is a perception that depends on observation integrating with memory. Without the transaction between sensation and memory, how can there be change?

If my religion had more than the one adherent, this would probably be our most important theological debate: whether (and which) any of the three elements is superior. However, it doesn't, so I get to say definitively that they're all equal.

Honestly, I can see your argument, but I don't agree. I can imagine a Godiverse lacking consciousness, where nothing evolves, just sort of spinning aimlessly. Likewise, I can imagine the static, yet conscious Godiverse, aware yet unable to move and also unable to evolve. Both of them sound horrific to me.

See, evolution is the clincher for me. I believe that's the whole point, the grand purpose, for God to evolve. It takes both life force and consciousness for that to happen, as far as I can see.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

If God is in any way or sense necessary, in what way or sense is He necessary? And why is He necessary?

Because God hasn't told me personally that he is indeed necessary....I'm surmising he doesn't care whether I think so or not.