Religious Education Forum  

Welcome to Religious Forums
Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!

Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Religious Topics / Religious Debates / General Religious Debates
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:10 AM
Popeyesays's Avatar
Popeyesays Offline
Religion: Baha`i
Title:Uber Member
Ambassador Award: Award designated for members who show great knowledge of their religion. - Issue reason: Award designated for members who show great knowledge of their religion. Courtesy Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oklahoma C
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,756
Frubals: 554491
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Default Gnosis vs. Revelation: What's the difference?

I would propose there is a definite difference.

Gnosis:
Main Entry: gno·sis
Pronunciation: 'nO-s&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek gnOsis, literally, knowledge, from gignOskein
: esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation

Main Entry: rev·e·la·tion
Pronunciation: "re-v&-'lA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English revelacioun, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin revelation-, revelatio, from Latin revelare to reveal
1 a : an act of revealing or communicating divine truth b : something that is revealed by God to humans

To claim one is different from claiming the other.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Scott
__________________
Author, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book, from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages...rd_dajjal.html
http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached
Jars of Doom Jan., 2008 Champagne Books
I Blog!: http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:13 AM
doppelgänger's Avatar
doppelgänger Online!
Title:Feral Philosopher
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: You have acheived over 10,000 posts here at RF. Congrats Brendan! Courtesy Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This scolarship award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,203
Frubals: 5690624
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
Default

Revelation is passive. It is an answer.

Gnosis is active. It is a question.
__________________
And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ
And seem a saint when most I play the devil. - Richard III

If you want to catch a fish, don't follow a chicken.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:17 AM
Sunstone's Avatar
Sunstone Offline
Religion: Girls On Trampolines!
Title:De diablo del fora
Above and Beyond Award:  - Issue reason: Link Exchange project Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Creative Thread Award:  - Issue reason:  Humor Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado, USA
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,456
Frubals: 6834200
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Sunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal WhoreSunstone is a Frubal Whore
Default

Revelation does not necessarily imply a direct, unmediated experience of deity. Gnosis does.
__________________
Then I came back from where I'd been.
My room, it looked the same -
but there was nothing left between
The Nameless and the name.
- Leonard Cohen.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:28 AM
A. Ben-Shema Offline
Religion: NONE
Title:BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paradise in hell
Gender: Male
Posts: 440
Frubals: 15369
A. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post
I would propose there is a definite difference.

Gnosis:
Main Entry: gno·sis
Pronunciation: 'nO-s&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek gnOsis, literally, knowledge, from gignOskein
: esoteric knowledge of spiritual truth held by the ancient Gnostics to be essential to salvation

Main Entry: rev·e·la·tion
Pronunciation: "re-v&-'lA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English revelacioun, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin revelation-, revelatio, from Latin revelare to reveal
1 a : an act of revealing or communicating divine truth b : something that is revealed by God to humans

To claim one is different from claiming the other.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Scott
Simple answer: when one is initiated by a Master, then one is "revealed" "Gnosis", i.e. the act of 'revealing', produces the result of 'Knowing' (Gnosis).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:58 AM
Popeyesays's Avatar
Popeyesays Offline
Religion: Baha`i
Title:Uber Member
Ambassador Award: Award designated for members who show great knowledge of their religion. - Issue reason: Award designated for members who show great knowledge of their religion. Courtesy Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oklahoma C
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,756
Frubals: 554491
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Popeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on treesPopeyesays thinks frubals grow on trees
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doppelgänger View Post
Revelation is passive. It is an answer.

Gnosis is active. It is a question.
When one sees the descriptions of Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah in the act of Revelation one cannot call it passive. They describe it as having fire shoot through Their limbs and to recite that which hearers cannot bear to hear spoken. Nothing passive in that.

One can come to KNOW God in fits and starts. Those experiences are fleeting and evasive. They are highly personal--those experiences are 'gnosis'.

Revelation, however, rocks the whole life of the recipient and that 'manifestation' is outward and affects others.

Two different thing, the first being personal and inward, the other being intensely broadcast to the hearts of the rest of mankind.

I can receive gnosis, I cannot manifest revelation.

Regards,
Scott
__________________
Author, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book, from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages...rd_dajjal.html
http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached
Jars of Doom Jan., 2008 Champagne Books
I Blog!: http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-16-2007, 09:34 AM
doppelgänger's Avatar
doppelgänger Online!
Title:Feral Philosopher
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: You have acheived over 10,000 posts here at RF. Congrats Brendan! Courtesy Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This scolarship award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,203
Frubals: 5690624
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
doppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whoredoppelgänger is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post
When one sees the descriptions of Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah in the act of Revelation one cannot call it passive. They describe it as having fire shoot through Their limbs and to recite that which hearers cannot bear to hear spoken. Nothing passive in that.
Ah, but they have gnosis. What you perceive issuing from them that you do not experience for yourself is revelation. The passivity is in receiving another's message and taking it for the thing signified. Questing for the thing signified is gnosis - it is active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post
I can receive gnosis
Then you haven't received gnosis. That's okay. Revelation will do fine, if that's what you want.
__________________
And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ
And seem a saint when most I play the devil. - Richard III

If you want to catch a fish, don't follow a chicken.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2007, 05:44 PM
A. Ben-Shema Offline
Religion: NONE
Title:BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paradise in hell
Gender: Male
Posts: 440
Frubals: 15369
A. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to beholdA. Ben-Shema is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popeyesays View Post
When one sees the descriptions of Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah in the act of Revelation one cannot call it passive. They describe it as having fire shoot through Their limbs and to recite that which hearers cannot bear to hear spoken. Nothing passive in that.

One can come to KNOW God in fits and starts. Those experiences are fleeting and evasive. They are highly personal--those experiences are 'gnosis'.

Revelation, however, rocks the whole life of the recipient and that 'manifestation' is outward and affects others.

Two different thing, the first being personal and inward, the other being intensely broadcast to the hearts of the rest of mankind.

I can receive gnosis, I cannot manifest revelation.

Regards,
Scott
You clearly have no idea what genuine GNOSIS is. It is NOT any kind of intellectual knowledge received through one's mind, it is Mystical / Spiritual KNOWLEDGE of God, received through REVELATION.

Peace & Love
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2007, 06:44 PM
worshiper's Avatar
worshiper Offline
Religion: God Almightyism
Title:Picker of Nose
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Land Below The Wind
Gender: Male
Posts: 128
Frubals: 4377
worshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the roughworshiper is a jewel in the rough
Default

reading from this thread, i cant help myself by visualising the difference between a revelation and gnosis as the difference between a prophet (Nabi) and a messenger (Rasool).

lets asume that both revelation and gnosis are "messages" from god. a revelation comes down to a "messenger" with the obligation to spread that revelation to his communitity or mankind. where's a gnosis (call it revelation if you may) comes down to a prophet for his own use and has no obligation to spread it to others.

a messenger is always a prophet but a prophet is not necessarily a messenger
__________________
the biggest war that a person faces in his life, is the war against himself.


keep your nose clean and dont let your nose hair go offside
Reply With Quote