Was Jesus A Gnostic? (ritual, Moses, Earth, mystic, beliefs)

[A. Ben-Shema]

First we must clearly define what a genuine Gnostic is. The word comes from ancient Greek (Gnosis), and means Divine (i.e. Mystical / Spiritual) experiential KNOWLEDGE of Truth / God (i.e. the “Supreme Power”, or the “ALL”). Thus a genuine Gnostic is one who has such “first-hand” Divine KNOWLEDGE of God. (N.B. NOT mere 'beliefs' and 'theories'!)

The question is: was Jesus a Gnostic? If what we are told in the New Testament is true, then obviously Jesus must have been a true Gnostic, as must ALL the other great Prophets and Masters of the Old Testament – not to mention the many other great Masters such as Siddhartha (Buddha), Krishna, Mohammed, Zarathushtra, Nanak, etc. etc.

To believe that God would only reveal Himself to one ‘clan’ (or ‘race’) of people (i.e. the Hebrews/Jews) demonstrates the typical blindness and ignorance of exoteric religion! It is claimed that the “Israelites” are the “chosen people of God.” This claim is, indeed, true – but again we have to understand what this name or “title” actually means in the ancient Hebrew. The term ISRAEL comes from three Hebrew roots: ’ish (= a Spiritual ‘being’ / ‘human’); ra’eh (= ‘seeing’ / ’vision’); and ’el (= ‘God’ / ‘Supreme Spirit’). Thus, when put together, the word (Israel) means: “Spiritual one(s) who SEE / KNOW God.” From this explanation it should be quite obvious that the term does not apply to any particular ‘race’ or ‘clan’ of people, but to ALL those who SEE, and thus KNOW, God, i.e. genuine Gnostics! So certainly the true ‘Israelites’ (i.e. Gnostics) are the 'chosen people' of God!

[Popeyesays]

Yes and absolutely NO!..
if you define Jesus as a true Gnostic, or Muhammad, or Moses, or Zoroaster, etc. then what you say is an obvious truth.

Now if you want to imply that ANYONE can be a True Gnostic like those Enlightened Messengers of God, then NO.

I can't become such, neither can anyone alive on earth today make that kind of claim.

The Manifestations of God are men on one level and another level of Creation altogether quite distinct from man.

Regards,
Scott

[A. Ben-Shema]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Yes and absolutely NO!..
if you define Jesus as a true Gnostic, or Muhammad, or Moses, or Zoroaster, etc. then what you say is an obvious truth.

Now if you want to imply that ANYONE can be a True Gnostic like those Enlightened Messengers of God, then NO.

I can't become such, neither can anyone alive on earth today make that kind of claim.

The Manifestations of God are men on one level and another level of Creation altogether quite distinct from man.

Regards,
Scott

I am afraid that this type of attitude and belief is precisely why many people do not even seek to become Gnostics. They wrongly assume that no-one can achieve Knowledge and become united with God (their "Father")! What kind of "father" do you think God is, if He does not want His children to KNOW Him and be united with Him? This is the greatest ignorance, which permeates so much of our world.

All I can say is, if you do not seek, you will certainly never find!

Peace & Love

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by A. Ben-Shema

I am afraid that this type of attitude and belief is precisely why many people do not even seek to become Gnostics. They wrongly assume that no-one can achieve Knowledge and become united with God (their "Father")! What kind of "father" do you think God is, if He does not want His children to KNOW Him and be united with Him? This is the greatest ignorance, which permeates so much of our world.

All I can say is, if you do not seek, you will certainly never find!

Peace & Love

"Nay, forbid it, O my God, that I should have uttered such words as must of necessity imply the existence of any direct relationship between the Pen of Thy Revelation and the essence of all created things. Far, far are They Who are related to Thee above the conception of such relationship! All comparisons and likenesses fail to do justice to the Tree of Thy Revelation, and every way is barred to the comprehension of the Manifestation of Thy Self and the Day Spring of Thy Beauty.
Far, far from Thy glory be what mortal man can affirm of Thee, or attribute unto Thee, or the praise with which he can glorify Thee! Whatever duty Thou hast prescribed unto Thy servants of extolling to the utmost Thy majesty and glory is but a token of Thy grace unto them, that they may be enabled 5 to ascend unto the station conferred upon their own inmost being, the station of the knowledge of their own selves.
No one else besides Thee hath, at any time, been able to fathom Thy mystery, or befittingly to extol Thy greatness. Unsearchable and high above the praise of men wilt Thou remain for ever. There is none other God but Thee, the Inaccessible, the Omnipotent, the Omniscient, the Holy of Holies.
II. The beginning of all things is the knowledge of God, and the end of all things is strict observance of whatsoever hath been sent down from the empyrean of the Divine Will that pervadeth all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 4)

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

We are created by God to know God and serve mankind.

God is beyond our comprehension and knowledge.

That's a paradox if you allow it to be.

As soon as any individual says "I know God! This is what He is!" that person ceases to know God.

That is why the Manifestations of God are so different from us.

Regards,
Scott

[A. Ben-Shema]

Hi Popeyesays

Can you tell me exactly from where, and how, Baha'u'llah obtained his information?

[Sunstone]

IMHO, Jesus was a mystic. If that makes him a gnostic, then so be it.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by A. Ben-Shema

Hi Popeyesays

Can you tell me exactly from where, and how, Baha'u'llah obtained his information?

From the same place that Jesus obtained His, or Muhammad, or Moses, or Buddha, or Zoroaster--a communion with God on a level beyond the capacity of all but those Holy Manifestations of God.

"XLI. God is My witness, O people! I was asleep on My couch, when lo, the Breeze of God wafting over Me roused Me from My slumber. His quickening Spirit revived Me, and My tongue was unloosed to voice His Call. Accuse Me not of having transgressed against God. Behold Me, not with your eyes 91 but with Mine. Thus admonisheth you He Who is the Gracious, the All-Knowing. Think ye, O people, that I hold within My grasp the control of God's ultimate Will and Purpose? Far be it from Me to advance such claim. To this I testify before God, the Almighty, the Exalted, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Had the ultimate destiny of God's Faith been in Mine hands, I would have never consented, even though for one moment, to manifest Myself unto you, nor would I have allowed one word to fall from My lips. Of this God Himself is, verily, a witness."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 90)

"Day and night, while confined in that dungeon, We meditated upon the deeds, the condition, and the conduct of the Bábís, wondering what could have led a people so high-minded, so noble, and of such intelligence, to perpetrate such an audacious and outrageous act against the person of His Majesty. This Wronged One, thereupon, decided to arise, after His release from prison, and undertake, with the utmost vigor, the task of regenerating this people.
One night, in a dream, these exalted words were heard on every side: "Verily, We shall render Thee victorious by Thyself and by Thy Pen. Grieve Thou not for that which hath befallen Thee, neither be Thou afraid, for Thou art in safety. Erelong will God raise up the treasures of the earth -- men who will aid Thee through Thyself and through Thy Name, wherewith God hath revived the hearts of such as have recognized Him."
And when this Wronged One went forth out of 22 His prison, We journeyed, in pursuance of the order of His Majesty the Shah -- may God, exalted be He, protect him -- to Iraq, escorted by officers in the service of the esteemed and honored governments of Persia and Russia. After Our arrival, We revealed, as a copious rain, by the aid of God and His Divine Grace and mercy, Our verses, and sent them to various parts of the world. We exhorted all men, and particularly this people, through Our wise counsels and loving admonitions, and forbade them to engage in sedition, quarrels, disputes and conflict. As a result of this, and by the grace of God, waywardness and folly were changed into piety and understanding, and weapons converted into instruments of peace.
During the days I lay in the prison of Tihran, though the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear."
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 21)
For research, start at www.bahai.org

Regards,
Scott