Was Jesus A Gnostic? (ritual, Moses, Earth, mystic, beliefs)

[xexon]

Originally Posted by UnityNow101

I don't believe that we can ever be in communion with the Divine in the way that Moses, Jesus, or Muhammed were...It just is not possible. They were invested with a Divine Message to bring to humanity and were in direct communication with God. We shall never attain that status, no matter how hard we may try. I would like to think that it was possible, but if it were, you would see A LOT more enlightened people walking around today in direct communion with God.

You're in for a very pleasant shock someday.

People who are in communion with God are not likely to be known for it. Even by their closest friends. In their enlightened state, they are aware of the dangers of being like they are.

It can attract the wrong kind of attention.


x

[UnityNow101]

Yes, Jesus Christ was fully human. Just as Muhammed, Moses, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah, among others, were fully human. But they were in touch with the Divine Truth and each were invested with a specific message to reveal to mankind. Can we just enlighten ourselves to the point that we will sooner or later be invested with a message for humanity? I say no. God chooses who shall become the Messengers of His Cause...Not us humans.

[UnityNow101]

That is not to say that we humans cannot become enlightened. We see many enlightened individuals, especially within Buddhism. But they were not all invested with a particular message to reveal to mankind. There are the Revealers of the Message; ie..Jesus, Muhammed, Moses. And then there are those that are enraptured by the grace infused into the whole of creation when their message and cause is brought forth.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by A. Ben-Shema

So do you believe that he was not a human being. Yes or no?

He was born by the union of a man and a woman. That makes Him as human as I. He was selected as the Vessel of a Revelation by God. That makes Him something other than I am.

So, "yes" and "no".

The mysteries of God are not answered 'yes' and ''no'.

Regards,
Scott

[A. Ben-Shema]

Originally Posted by UnityNow101

Yes, Jesus Christ was fully human. Just as Muhammed, Moses, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah, among others, were fully human. But they were in touch with the Divine Truth and each were invested with a specific message to reveal to mankind. Can we just enlighten ourselves to the point that we will sooner or later be invested with a message for humanity? I say no. God chooses who shall become the Messengers of His Cause...Not us humans.

Did I mention Enlightening ourselves? or did I say SEEKING God with ALL our Heart, above ALL else in this world? It is God who does the Enlightening, and it is God who chooses those who are TRULY dedicated and sincere in their search for Truth. Such people may be few, but they definitely exist on Earth today, as they always have.

You also confuse an Enlightened disciple with an Enlightened Master. The Master is sent by God to reveal the Mysteries of Truth, which in turn Enlighten His disciples. This is why it is essential to have a living Master. A historic (i.e. dead) Master cannot now reveal these Sacred Mysteries, and no books can actually contain the Spiritual Mysteries - for they are truly ineffable.

I cannot now know, with any certainty, whether Baha'u'llah was a genuine Master while he lived, but it does not really matter as, just like Jesus, Moses, and other historic Masters, he cannot actually Enlighten anyone living today.

I hope you understand what I've said.

Peace & Love

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by A. Ben-Shema

Did I mention Enlightening ourselves? or did I say SEEKING God with ALL our Heart, above ALL else in this world? It is God who does the Enlightening, and it is God who chooses those who are TRULY dedicated and sincere in their search for Truth. Such people may be few, but they definitely exist on Earth today, as they always have.

You also confuse an Enlightened disciple with an Enlightened Master. The Master is sent by God to reveal the Mysteries of Truth, which in turn Enlighten His disciples. This is why it is essential to have a living Master. A historic (i.e. dead) Master cannot now reveal these Sacred Mysteries, and no books can actually contain the Spiritual Mysteries - for they are truly ineffable.

I cannot now know, with any certainty, whether Baha'u'llah was a genuine Master while he lived, but it does not really matter as, just like Jesus, Moses, and other historic Masters, he cannot actually Enlighten anyone living today.

I hope you understand what I've said.

Peace & Love

I understand exactly what you are saying. I also understand that you are 'dead' wrong. The Message of christ was meant to last centuries after He was no longer present.

The Revelation of Muhammad lasted 1260 years.

There are no living Manifestations of God today, nor will there be for nine or ten centuries. Baha`u'llah makes it clear that another Manifestation will come, but not until the passing of a full thousand yars of normal description.

If you are following a living 'master', you are following your own idle fancies and vain imaginations and so is this 'living master'.

That's my own opinion, of course. It is also the clear revelation of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

"Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from
God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a
man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that
He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate
such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt,
forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error,
God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal
mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in
punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise
than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of
God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created
things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies.
Nay, rather, follow the bidding of your Lord, the
Almighty, the All-Wise. Erelong shall clamorous
voices be raised in most lands. Shun them, O My
people, and follow not the iniquitous and evil-hearted.
This is that of which We gave you forewarning when
We were dwelling in Iraq, then later while in the Land
of Mystery, and now from this Resplendent Spot.
38
Be not dismayed, O peoples of the world, when
the day-star of My beauty is set, and the heaven of My
tabernacle is concealed from your eyes. Arise to further 33
My Cause, and to exalt My Word amongst men. We
are with you at all times, and shall strengthen you
through the power of truth. We are truly almighty.
Whoso hath recognized Me will arise and serve Me
with such determination that the powers of earth and
heaven shall be unable to defeat his purpose.
39
The peoples of the world are fast asleep. Were they
to wake from their slumber, they would hasten with
eagerness unto God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.
They would cast away everything they possess, be it all
the treasures of the earth, that their Lord may
remember them to the extent of addressing to them but
one word. Such is the instruction given you by Him
Who holdeth the knowledge of things hidden, in a
Tablet which the eye of creation hath not seen, and
which is revealed to none except His own Self, the
omnipotent Protector of all worlds. So bewildered are
they in the drunkenness of their evil desires, that they
are powerless to recognize the Lord of all being, Whose
voice calleth aloud from every direction: "There is none
other God but Me, the Mighty, the All-Wise."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 32)


Regards,
Scott

[A. Ben-Shema]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

I understand exactly what you are saying. I also understand that you are 'dead' wrong. The Message of christ was meant to last centuries after He was no longer present.

The Revelation of Muhammad lasted 1260 years.

There are no living Manifestations of God today, nor will there be for nine or ten centuries. Baha`u'llah makes it clear that another Manifestation will come, but not until the passing of a full thousand yars of normal description.

If you are following a living 'master', you are following your own idle fancies and vain imaginations and so is this 'living master'.

That's my own opinion, of course. It is also the clear revelation of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

Then, quite simply, in my opinion, Baha`u'llah was definitely wrong.

Peace & Love