Vain repetition and the true nature of prayer. (ritual, Creator)

[Sonic247]

When I was a kid I didn't go to church very ofter, but I was always intrested in church and religion in general. As a kid I didn't see all the corruption and spiritual battle that was going on but I looked at church as a place were people learned about God and it was kind of a magical place. When I learned the Lords prayer some times I would say it over and over, that just what I thought you were supposed to do, but their is a verse in the Bible that says, "when you pray use not vain repetition as the heathen do, for they think they shall be heard for there much speaking." I now think that to say a prayer and then repeat exactly the same words over and over is not praying to God only reinforcing something in your own mind. Prayer is talking to God, if you are talking to a person you can ask them something more then once to show urgency, but that's not what I mean, I mean thinking the more times you say a certain set prayer the better. I think in a prayer (since God hears everything and knows our thoughts and hearts) we need to be sincerly calling out to God, believing that he hears us and putting our trust in him to answer us. If I say that when I say a certain prayer 100 times I will be closer to God I might have memorized something very well but was I really talking to God, If he knows our thoughts before we ask him it will not make him it is not neccasary to say it more than once. Or in the Hare Krishna's case hundreds of times, God hears us clearer than when one person is talking to another, and we can talk to him as a father and as a friend.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by Sonic247

When I was a kid I didn't go to church very ofter, but I was always intrested in church and religion in general. As a kid I didn't see all the corruption and spiritual battle that was going on but I looked at church as a place were people learned about God and it was kind of a magical place. When I learned the Lords prayer some times I would say it over and over, that just what I thought you were supposed to do, but their is a verse in the Bible that says, "when you pray use not vain repetition as the heathen do, for they think they shall be heard for there much speaking." I now think that to say a prayer and then repeat exactly the same words over and over is not praying to God only reinforcing something in your own mind. Prayer is talking to God, if you are talking to a person you can ask them something more then once to show urgency, but that's not what I mean, I mean thinking the more times you say a certain set prayer the better. I think in a prayer (since God hears everything and knows our thoughts and hearts) we need to be sincerly calling out to God, believing that he hears us and putting our trust in him to answer us. If I say that when I say a certain prayer 100 times I will be closer to God I might have memorized something very well but was I really talking to God, If he knows our thoughts before we ask him it will not make him it is not neccasary to say it more than once. Or in the Hare Krishna's case hundreds of times, God hears us clearer than when one person is talking to another, and we can talk to him as a father and as a friend.

The repetition itself isn't necesarily a bad thing. To show that repetitive prayer can be good, Read the Psalms(Check out Psalm 136). Worship songs or hymns are also repetitious. They key here is Empty or Vain repetition, thats what Christ condemns. We cannot just repeat vain or empty words with no meaning or heart behind them and hope to win favor from God or get noticed publically. This is the error of the Pharisees and others who did just that. We can pray in repetition as long as when we pray in repetition our Hearts and minds are raised to God and not just trying to get noticed or ramble empty phrases. I hope that helps.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by athanasius

The repetition itself isn't necesarily a bad thing. to show that repetitive prayer can be good, Read the Psalms(Check out Psalm 136). Worship songs or hymns are also repetitious. They key here is Empty or Vain repetition, thats what Christ condemns. We cannot just repeat vain or empty words with no meaning or heart behind them and hope to win favor from God or get noticed publically. This is the error of the Pharisees and otehrs who did just that. We can pray in repetition as long as when we pray in repettion our Hearts and minds are raised to God and not just trying to get noticed or ramble empty phrases. I hope that helps.

What he said.

People often think that all repetition is bad, when only the mindless sort is bad. Well, mindlessly reading a non-repetitious prayer wouldn't be much use either.

So just strive to be mindful!

[ayani]

I now think that to say a prayer and then repeat exactly the same words over and over is not praying to God only reinforcing something in your own mind.

If I say that when I say a certain prayer 100 times I will be closer to God I might have memorized something very well but was I really talking to God, If he knows our thoughts before we ask him it will not make him it is not neccasary to say it more than once.

i'd like to address these issues you raise, as i find the topic interesting as heck, and as my own practice is centered on repetetive prayer.

i was listening to a Catholic man expound on repeated prayers in the Catholic Church and he said something that really struck me. "repetition is the language of love". he compared repeated prayer to saying "i love you" to his wife. every time he says it, something he has noticed in his wife compells him to speak these words, to express his love for her. these words are the same, but they are not dry or lifeless, but inspired by the life within her, between them as a couple, and within the words "i love you".

when i sit down with prayer beads or repeat this Prayer to myself, i find something new and uplifting there every time. each time i am inspired to speak these words, my position, my circumstances are never the same. yet i am inspired, i believe, by God every time to return to these holy words wherever i am. the idea is that the words themselves are manifestations of God, and that He is present within them and behind and in the meanings of the entire Verse.

does this mean i can not or do not talk to God conversationally? no, and i am encouraged to do so by that Verse. yet in repeating, through God's inspiration and guidance in understanding what i am saying, i draw nearer to Him and become more aware of His will. yet when i pray to Him conversationally, i can not claim to know His will- i ask to know it. i must also ask to understand the nuances and ultimate meanings of what i am seeking to understand in the Verse.

if you ask, it will be given to you. through repeated prayer, and spontaneous.

[Victor]

Would a child repetitively saying "I love you" from the bottom of his heart be wrong?

As mentioned above any prayer from the heart, repetitive or otherwise, is acceptable to God. The matter then is not simply repetition, but vain repetition.

[lava]

Hay,

in our daily work we repeat the name of Allah for thousands of times.
in the holy book Quran there is one verse says that the greatest worship is repeating the name of the Creator.


peaceful

[Sonic247]

Originally Posted by Victor

Would a child repetitively saying "I love you" from the bottom of his heart be wrong?

As mentioned above any prayer from the heart, repetitive or otherwise, is acceptable to God. The matter then is not simply repetition, but vain repetition.

No, whatever prayer is sincere and directed to God probably wouldn't be wrong, but a child saying... "I love you, I love you, I love you ect.." would be kind of weird. If it is repeating just for the sake of repeating it then it's vain, for instance if you predetermined in your mind "I'm going to say this pray x number of times."

[spiritually inclined]

You say that repetitive prayer is unneccessary because God already knows what we are going to say before we say it. But why even pray it once? He already knows what you're going to say, right?

I don't actually pray, but meditation can be very relaxing, reduces stress levels, there are benefits to long-term meditation (increased happiness, calm, etc.) That being said, repetitive prayer can be a form of meditation. Whether you're praying the rosary or reciting Anglican prayers on prayer beads or even reciting prayers you've created, the repetition can induce a peaceful, meditative state.

James

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Sonic247

No, whatever prayer is sincere and directed to God probably wouldn't be wrong, but a child saying... "I love you, I love you, I love you ect.." would be kind of weird. If it is repeating just for the sake of repeating it then it's vain, for instance if you predetermined in your mind "I'm going to say this pray x number of times."

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