Are equal rights for gays incompatible with religious liberty? (homosexuality, marriage)

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by Mr Spinkles

Let's also look an an historical example: since inter-racial marriage was established as a right, have any religious institutions been forced to marry inter-racial couples? Has any attempt been made by anyone to do so?

And furthermore, if I may add to what I just posted, would the prospect that one day religious institutions might be forced to marry inter-racial couples be a good reason not to support the legality of inter-racial marriage?

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Also, does anyone else see the bringing up of anti-discrimination laws and how they are applied to academic institutions as a complete diversion from the actual topic at hand?

Yup... I thought it was just me being bitchy about staying on topic again.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Yes, let's just dismiss this entire point because it's not true right now.

It certainly IS true and I've heard of no compulsory marriage performed in the homophobic churches of Massachusetts. Have you, now that you've been reminded of reality?

So the point is not dismissed but in IS, in fact, a VALID point.

The fact of the matter still stands. IT MATTERS HOW YOU DEFINE EQUAL. It's NOT a non-issue no matter how much you want it to be, because THE WORD HAS NOT BEEN DEFINED.

Equal is equal. What nuance makes you think it isn't?

Religious institutions can deny to perform marriage BECAUSE GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT ALLOWED.

We've taken care of that ignorance above.

If gay marriage were allowed, I don't find it that unlikely that any preacher who wanted to deny marrying gays because they are gay would be jailed for discrimination (just like I have the right to hire or not hire anybody I want, but if I don't want to hire a black person because they are black that's discrimination and I am forced to).

Why would anyone go where they are not welcomed when there are plenty of places where Christ's love is found?

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Green Gaia

First of all, I disagree and believe that people who perpetuate that myth only do so to justify their discrimination of GBLT people.

Well that's silly, considering the fact that I don't discriminate against GBLT people.

Secondly, why do you think for even a minute that a same gender couple would want to get married a church that doesn't love and affirm them?

There are people who love a good lawsuit. There are people who want to be married by a church whose doctrines they otherwise agree with. For example, I'm sure a gay mormon might feel a desire to be united with their gay partner for time and all eternity. There are people who want to force others to accept them, rather than just letting them remain in their hate.

But AGAIN, the fight for marriage equality is on a civil level and gaining equal rights and access to legal marriage which has nothing to do with religion and therefore does not and will not infringe upon the religious liberty of others who choose to shun and condemn same gender couples.

Marriages are quite often performed by religious institutions. To claim that marriage and religion are completely seperate is to change the meaning of marriage. Have we entered that into the debate yet?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Storm

Funny, the Founding Fathers called it "the tyranny of the majority" and took steps to prevent it.

You mean like veto power and two houses of congress and representative democracy or did you have something else in mind?

Originally Posted by Storm

Nowadays, reasonable folk just call it theocracy. If the majority of our populace were Muslim, would you be content to live under Shariah law?

Your definition of theocracy is skewed if you are applying to what I was saying

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by standing_alone

Except for the fact that sexual orientation currently is not a protected status under federal anti-discrimination laws.

If it became illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation for marriages it would probably become illegal in other areas.

Would allowing same-sex marriage change this? It's debatable.

It is debatable. Good thing this is a debate thread.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Storm

The debate is about whether or not you, as a Christian, have the right to deny others basic civil liberties which in no way infringe upon your own, simply because your religion disapproves of them.

Not much of a debate from where I sit.

P.S. I posted that in response to you saying that people who seek equal rights for GLBTs are practicing bigotry, which has nothing to do with "the character of legal marriage," either. Not that that's the topic.

Your confused. My post was about some people denying the basic constitutional right of Christians to influence the society they live in. Christians have the same right to influence legislation that any other citizen has.

[Aqualung]

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