Are equal rights for gays incompatible with religious liberty? (homosexuality, marriage)

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Green Gaia

Churches (and ministers - in my religion a minister decides whom he or she will or will not marry, not the congregation, although the congregation can put forth in the by-laws rules about who is married at the church, but doesn't control what the minister does otherwise) now can say who they will and won't marry. No, I don't think that it is possible that would change and to suggest such is quite obvious to me that those who use that argument against same gender marriage are grasping at straws because they know they have nothing else to throw at us.

See the thing is, if one minister or church won't marry a couple, there is another down the street that will. That is not the issue at all. The issue is that GOVERNMENT will not allow same gender couples legal civil marriage. It really has nothing to do with religion except in the minds of those who believe they and their religion own the word and definition of marriage. Therefore, equal rights for gays will not infringe upon the right of religion and churches to discriminate against whomever they choose.

Religious schools aren't allowed to deny admission based on colour. Why is this the case? Because black people have fought such things even though there is another school down the street that will take them. Even though they are a religious institution, they are subject to anti-discrimination laws. This might happen if gay marriage were allowed.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Religious schools aren't allowed to deny admission based on colour. Why is this the case? Because black people have fought such things even though there is another school down the street that will take them. Even though they are a religious institution, they are subject to anti-discrimination laws. This might happen if gay marriage were allowed.

First of all, I disagree and believe that people who perpetuate that myth only do so to justify their discrimination of GBLT people. Secondly, why do you think for even a minute that a same gender couple would want to get married a church that doesn't love and affirm them? Would you want to start off your married life in such a negative environment? We are quite happy that there are some loving and accepting congregations and religions out there willing to perform a religious ceremony for same gender couples who wish one. But AGAIN, the fight for marriage equality is on a civil level and gaining equal rights and access to legal marriage which has nothing to do with religion and therefore does not and will not infringe upon the religious liberty of others who choose to shun and condemn same gender couples.

[gnomon]

Originally Posted by Green Gaia

With more and more people accepting GBLT people as they there, religious conservatives are starting to lose the argument that GBLT people are fundamentality flawed and should therefore not have equal civil rights to them. In response to that trend, one thing I've noticed is religious conservatives claiming that treating gays like fully equal citizens and human beings is incompatible with the conservatives' religious liberty. Are they right?

This is not a "Is homosexuality wrong?" thread or a debate on same gender marriage. Please stick to the question asked.

No. There is nothing about homosexuality that threatens religious liberty. It only threatens religious sensibilities.

[standing_alone]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Even though they are a religious institution, they are subject to anti-discrimination laws. This might happen if gay marriage were allowed.

Except for the fact that sexual orientation currently is not a protected status under federal anti-discrimination laws. Would allowing same-sex marriage change this? It's debatable.

[Darkness]

So if we were to make sure that Churches retain the right to only marry who they choose, would the religious right allow same-sex marriage?

[Mr Spinkles]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Religious schools aren't allowed to deny admission based on colour. Why is this the case?

It's not the case.

Here's something informative: http://privateschool.about.com/od/fi.../a/form990.htm according to this article, the law actually says:

"Federal tax laws govern the tax-exempt status of most not for profit private schools. These schools are usually classified as 501(c3) institutions. In order to maintain their tax-exempt status 501(c3) institutions must file a Federal Return Form 990 at the end of each fiscal year. In it they must prove compliance with federal laws regarding discrimination and political activity."

In other words, if you're going to get money from the government for your private school, no you can't discriminate against people. The government, which represents taxpayers of all races, religions, etc., cannot support a school which discriminates against certain races, religions, etc. You can still have your school, but you won't get a special tax break. I think that's reasonable.

Let's also look an an historical example: since inter-racial marriage was established as a right, have any religious institutions been forced to marry inter-racial couples? Has any attempt been made by anyone to do so?

[Moey]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

Religious schools aren't allowed to deny admission based on colour. Why is this the case? Because black people have fought such things even though there is another school down the street that will take them. Even though they are a religious institution, they are subject to anti-discrimination laws. This might happen if gay marriage were allowed.

I hate to tell you this but some states are already developing anti-discrimination laws for GLBT. Weather or not we are allowed to marry wont matter.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Mr Spinkles

It's not the case.

Here's something informative: http://privateschool.about.com/od/fi.../a/form990.htm according to this article, the law actually says:

"Federal tax laws govern the tax-exempt status of most not for profit private schools. These schools are usually classified as 501(c3) institutions. In order to maintain their tax-exempt status 501(c3) institutions must file a Federal Return Form 990 at the end of each fiscal year. In it they must prove compliance with federal laws regarding discrimination and political activity."

In other words, if you're going to get money from the government for your private school, no you can't discriminate against people. The government, which represents taxpayers of all races, religions, etc., cannot support a school which discriminates against certain races, religions, etc. You can still have your school, but you won't get a special tax break. I think that's reasonable.

Thank you. I thought that sounded fishy, but I was being lazy.