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#1
04-21-2007, 05:14 PM
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Was this crusade justified?
You often hear about the evil crusades and so on and I have brought them up myself when debating Roman Catholics but I must admit I have never looked into the history surrounding this. I'm not saying the crusaders actions were good or lawful but was the original idea for calling for a crusade made by the Pope justified?:
Pope urban II 1095 From the confines of Jerusalem and from the city of Constantinople a grievous report has gone forth and has -repeatedly been brought to our ears; namely, that a race from the kingdom of the Persians, an accursed race, a race wholly alienated from God, `a generation that set not their heart aright and whose spirit was not steadfast with God,' violently invaded the lands of those Christians and has depopulated them by pillage and fire. They have led away apart of the captives into their own country, and a part have they have killed by cruel tortures. They have either destroyed the churches of God or appropriated them for the rites of their own religion. They destroy the altars, after having defiled them with their uncleanness....The kingdom of the Greeks is now dismembered by them and has been deprived of territory so vast in extent that it could be traversed in two months' time. http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1508730
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 1st Chronicles 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears
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#2
04-21-2007, 05:18 PM
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Probably not...The crusades killed tons of people and was mainly aimed at taking land that didn't belong to them through warfare. Jesus teaches us to Love our enemies and to pray for those that persecute us.
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"A man may be born, but in order to be born he must first die, and in order to die he must first awake." ~G.I. Gurdjieff~
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#3
04-21-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
__________________
1st Chronicles 17:20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears
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#4
04-21-2007, 05:58 PM
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Decide for yourself if the Crusade was or wasn't wrong;
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...crusades02.htm Note in particular the massacring of the Jews, the turn on the Byzantines, the cannibalism and this; Quote:
The language of the quote you give is extreme propaganda. Also the Muslims, of this era anyway, were reasonably Christian and Jew friendly, because it is taught in Qur'an to tolerate the People of the Book. Even when the Arab armies eventually regained Jerusalem, they spared the Christian occupants, whereas upon arriving at Jerusalem the Crusaders slaughtered Muslim and Jew alike. Which should tell you something.
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Artificial Life on your PC
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#5
04-21-2007, 07:15 PM
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I doubt anything justifies the barbarism of the crusade.
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Then I came back from where I'd been. My room, it looked the same - but there was nothing left between The Nameless and the name. - Leonard Cohen.
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#6
04-21-2007, 07:43 PM
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I don't think slaughter of like that can be justafied ever. Killing inocent people is wrong, the leaders of Christianity at that time were all most certainly corrup and power hungry.
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 "If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now."
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#7
04-21-2007, 07:46 PM
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I have no doubt that there were those within the christian heirachy at the time that most certainly thought they were doing the right thing in the name of God. For that I do not blame them. However most assuredly those in power understood very clearly that it was unjustified. In any case they have to tell teh common soldier things like what you posted in the OP in order to ensure their support for invasion and war, or else they won't agree to fight.........
*sounds familiar*
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#8
04-21-2007, 08:04 PM
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The response to Muslim aggression was completely justified. What it resulted into is not.
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"Man can be defined as an animal that makes dogmas. . . . " G.K. Chesterton
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#9
04-21-2007, 09:57 PM
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The Christian army had not only slaughtered Muslim/Saracens, but also Christians and Jews who were still living peacefully in those cities. And it didn't matter if the people living in those cities were warriors or civilians. They didn't care who they killed, because Pope Urban II had already given absolution into slaughtering anyone in the "Holy Land", regardless if they were Muslims or not, civilians or not.
Pope Urban had basically given the crusaders - license to kill. Or it is like a billionaire giving a signed blank cheque to a con man.
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Timeless Myths for myth enthusiasts. Dark Mirrors of Heaven investigates the obscure literature surrounding the Genesis. Last edited by gnostic; 04-21-2007 at 10:00 PM.
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#10
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