Do Islamic schools have the right to consider students' behavior away from school? (dress code, choice)

[Djamila]

A case now being heard before Bosnia and Herzegovina's highest court has the potential to revolutionize - either for better or for worse, depending on your opinion - how students at this country's Islamic schools are graded.

Mirsada K. (left) and Samira B. (second from left) are both 16-year-old students at an Islamic highschool in Sarajevo. Both have achieved average grades thus far in the Islamic school system, and both have been disciplined numerous times for "failing to honor social standards" at school.

We know that Mirsada K. was disciplined for swearing twice, and for violating the school's dress code once. We know that Samira B. was disciplined for violating the school's dress code four times, and for inappropriate behavior twice. No further details have been or will be made public because schools records fall under the same legal guidelines as juvenile criminal records in Bosnia and Herzegovina - meaning the only information that can be published is the type of offense.

Now all of that is normal - children who attend Islamic schools have to honor the rules and regulations set forth by these schools while on school property. I don't know of anyone who disagrees with that - and, to tell you the truth, I don't know many who disagree with what we're about to get in to.

This year, both girls received failing grades in several courses - not because of what they have done or not done at school, but because of how they live off school property. The school took into consideration their personal lifestyles when grading their development certain courses.

Samira B. (left), Mirsada K. (right)

Outside of school, both girls live a lifestyle that is more or less the anti-thesis of everything the school represents. But this debate, like this court case, has nothing to do with whether or not they should wear a veil or whatever else. The question is are schools allowed to consider anything a student does beyond school when grading them?

Islamic schools are already free to discipline or even expel certain students if they break the country's laws while attending, even if the law is broken outside of school. They are free to discipline and expel certain students if they break the school's rules and regulations. They're even free before any of this becomes a problem to not accept students' applications for a variety of reasons related to that applicant's lifestyle.

Until now, though, they've not been allowed to consider students' lifestyles in grading them. A woman who wears a burka to school and strips at a belly dancing club at night would receive the highest marks possible for modesty under the old rules - something school officials want to change.

They're fighting this battle to the death for one main reason. Islamic schools in Bosnia very, very rarely expel students. School staff are required to do everything in their power to bring these students to Islam and schools are very reluctant to simply give up on a young man or young woman.

This, they say, is another tool they can use in that regard - if a students marks reflect their behavior outside of school, then there is more fairness in grades. They cited one case in Bihac in which the male valedictorian of the graduating class (the one with the highest marks) was by all accounts an alcoholic who was never sober unless he was at school - meanwhile students with slightly lower grades at school, who lived truly Islamic lifestyles, went unrecognized.

So, what do you think?

[Djamila]

Well, my first instinct is to support the schools. Too many parents use Islamic schools in Bosnia as "holding tanks" for their young boys and girls - because they're uninterested in teaching their children about Islam religiously (instead of just culturally) themselves. It's like they've been given the choice of a school that's like a 16-year-old babysitter (public) and another that's a prison (private) - and they choose the latter because it gives them more peace of mind. Many of these parents couldn't care less if their children don't respect the school's rules and regulations beyond the classroom.

On the other side, I'm worried about what this case might be a precedent for in the future - I have no idea how it might be used.

[MaddLlama]

I don't quite get the idea behind this. How exactly does your behavior outside of school impact your ability to do and understand course material. Does having sex somehow impair my ability to do math, or interpret literature?

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

I don't quite get the idea behind this. How exactly does your behavior outside of school impact your ability to do and understand course material. Does having sex somehow impair my ability to do math, or interpret literature?

Well, these schools have different courses. They have to uphold the same standards as public schools in the courses public schools offer, but they also offer so much more.

For example, Women in Society: The religious framework for success. That course teaches female students that they have not only the right but the obligation to pursue the career in which they have the most to offer. It also teaches female students that they can do all this even better if they follow Islamic teachings. They bring in scientists, teachers, politicians, etc... everyone you can think of, as long as they're Muslim women who live devoutly Islamic lifestyles.

The main part of this course is a self-profile in which you talk about your dreams, where your talents are, and what you'd doing to achieve your goals - and describe the Islamic framework you're using. Both these students could've failed this course miserably if they showed no "religious road" to their goals.

[painted wolf]

I suppose it no worse than other religious schools punnishing students for "extracarricualr" activities.
Do the students have access to a non-religious school?

I'm not sure I personally agree with the policy, so long as you do the work you should get the grade. IMHO

wa:do

[Yugo]

Wow. Religious schools in Bosnia are so different then ones in Canada. In Canadian Catholic Schools you are offered one religious course, and it is optional. We have just as much Muslims, and Jews attending Catholic schools as we do Catholics proper. But then you have a country like Bosnia..
I am strongly apposed to religious schools, especially in my backward homeland. Maybe it is like you say, teaching modesty, and how to incorporate Islam into your life, but is that really necessary? Religion and the education system should not be linked at all. This is the 21 century, what place does religion have in modern day Europe? If they punish Muslim girls for not acting Islamic outside of the school, then I suppose the idea of a Christian or Jew wanting to attend an Islamic School is not even a question. You can really see how different Bosnia is then, can't you? In a modern Western country the idea of a Jew or Muslim attending a Catholic School is totally normal, but the idea of a Christian or Jew attending an Islamic School in Bosnia is preposterous.
Back to the issue at hand: No, Islamic schools should not be allowed to grade students upon their behavior outside of school. That has absolutely nothing to do with education, these are schools not Islamic conformist centers.. If a girl wishes to not wear a Hijab, or drink, or have sex then that is up to her, and has nothing to do with her learning capability. It is not only that I don't understand these Islamic schools and their opinion; it is that I refuse to. Things such as Islamic Schools, segregated schools, laws such as not being allowed to drink alcohol near a mosque, nationalistic symbols, the fact that we have three presidents, three national languages, two armies, two flags, no words in our national anthem, Wahabis terrorizing Muslim villagers, continuous attacks on Mosques and Churches, all come to show what big of a whole Bosnia has dug itself into..

[Djamila]

Originally Posted by Yugo

This is the 21 century, what place does religion have in modern day Europe?

You're such a Yugoslav, I love it. A dying breed, though, my friend - a dying breed.

Originally Posted by Yugo

If they punish Muslim girls for not acting Islamic outside of the school, then I suppose the idea of a Christian or Jew wanting to attend an Islamic School is not even a question.

Well, it's not out of the question so much as it's weird by our standards. Why would anyone want to attend a private, religious institution for a faith other than their own? We can barely get along in public schools - there are schools in Bosnia, Yugo, that LITERALLY have brick walls installed inside, in the middle of hallways, cutting them in three parts for each faith.

Originally Posted by Yugo

Things such as Islamic Schools, segregated schools, laws such as not being allowed to drink alcohol near a mosque, nationalistic symbols, the fact that we have three presidents, three national languages, two armies, two flags, no words in our national anthem, Wahabis terrorizing Muslim villagers, continuous attacks on Mosques and Churches, all come to show what big of a whole Bosnia has dug itself into..

I love that - "and our national anthem has no words!" - hahaha. So sad, but so true.

Well, even having this opinion is a trouble for Bosnians, Yugo. If I agreed with everything you say here, then we still have to fight about who it was that started digging, who dug fastest, who dug most, where they threw the dirt they removed from the hole, how much water they drank while digging, where that water was made - who delivered it? What car did you drive to the dig in? What road did you come down? lol

So pfft.

[love]

If a student is judged and failed on such gounds as immorality where the rules are very ridgid, where is their redeemtion? Is this something that will follow this person socially for a long time? It must be very hard to be judged by a group of your "peers" as being "unsuitable".

[astarath]

I believe that if students are tying their school and faith together than yes the school has a right to judge their actions outside of school as it represents their devotion to their faith and their dedication to their education.