Signs from Apostles of allah, what are they? (Jesus, punishment)

*Paul* · #1 01-29-2007, 08:26 AM

I was going to ask this in the dir forum but it would doubtless end in a debate so i'll ask here:

Surah 40. The Believer, The Forgiver (god)

49. Those in the Fire will say to the Keepers of Hell: "Pray to your Lord to lighten us the Penalty for a day (at least)!" 50. They will say: "Did there not come to you your apostles with Clear Signs?" They will say, "Yes". They will reply, "Then pray (as ye like)! But the prayer of those without Faith is nothing but (futile wandering) in (mazes of) error!"
Interpretation S.Abdul A'La Moududi:
That is, 'When the fact is this that the Messengers had come to you with the clear Signs, and you have already been sentenced to suffer punishment here, because you had refused to believe in them, it is not possible for us to pray for you to Allah. For obviously there should be some plea for such a prayer, and you have exhausted every plea by your misconduct. So, you pray for yourselves if you so like: but we would tell you beforehand that the prayers of the people who had disbelieved in the world like you have been of no avail.

What are these clear signs that leave unbelievers without excuse or hope for mercy? Who are these apostles? Who qualifies as an unbeliever?

Sola*5 · #2 01-29-2007, 08:48 AM

This reminds me of the rich man and Lazarus account. It would be most interesting to hear the muslim perspective on this. We'll have to see if they want to get into it I suppose.

fullyveiled muslimah · #3 01-29-2007, 05:51 PM

All of the prophets of Allah have come with signs to prove to the people they were addressing, that they indeed were the messengers of Allah. Musa (as) sign was his staff and the various plagues. These were the signs to Fir'own that Musa was the prophet of Allah. Fir'own disbelieved in Allah and in the fact that Musa was a messenger of Allah and died a disbeliever. He will not be forgiven. Similarly Jesus (as) came with many signs well enumerated in the bible. The healing of the sick and so on. These were the signs from him to the bani Israel that he was the messiah. They disbelieved in him as well despite his clear signs. Muhammad came with the Quran first and foremost. Aside from that, he performed a few miracles. One instance is when they were digging the trenches. One companion as he was working could see the hunger reading on the face of the prophet. He went and pulled the prophet to the side and offered that he would feed the prophet what little food he had at home. He did not offer it to all the companions because there were a couple thousand of them, and he did not have enough food to feed them all. When he told the prophet, the prophet invited all the companions to eat, and told the man not to worry for the amount. Well the man went home and slaughtered one lamb and had a little bread. When the prophet arrived to the man's home, the prophet served the food. Then he told the man to serve but not to look into the dish itself. Only to reach his hand in and there would be food there. After all the people were fed, there was much food left over that everyone was able to take some for their own homes.

The signs of Allah are not restricted to mu'jizat or miracles. Allah's signs is the earth itself, our bodies, all of the existance we have come to know, all things in creation are His signs. Man, being apart of it and witnessing these things daily cannot deny that they exist. All the prophets that have come to the world has pointed out these things to some degree or another. This is what Allah is talking about. Through investigating and pondering over these things, we are to recognize the greatness of Allah. Allah wants us to realize that all the things we see that are wonderments in and of themselves, are originated by Allah and ultimately due to His greatness that these things exist.

Sola*5 · #4 01-31-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullyveiled muslimah

All of the prophets of Allah have come with signs to prove to the people they were addressing, that they indeed were the messengers of Allah. Musa (as) sign was his staff and the various plagues. These were the signs to Fir'own that Musa was the prophet of Allah. ........................

It's a tragedy that Fully veiled Muslimah is the only muslim on this site who cares enough to try to warn people about what these signs might be so that they can avoid such a horrible destiny. What modern day signs are there to people alive today? Old stories about miracles years ago are hardly convincing evidence of why allah should be believed today. That could be said of all religions but this is about Islam. How is the evidence of creation a sign that a person should become a muslim and not a jew or a hindu? Some might argue that creation is so expansive that it took more than one God to do it (not me but some might say that).
Does a person just have to believe in a creator? Is a disbeliever only a person who denies a creator? It talks of not listening to messengers with their clear signs, do you think that every generation should have a messsenger with clear signs?

TashaN · #5 01-31-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sola*5

It's a tragedy that Fully veiled Muslimah is the only muslim on this site who cares enough to try to warn people about what these signs might be so that they can avoid such a horrible destiny.

That doesn't mean the others don't care but rather, waiting for the feedback from the writer of this thread or any other members toward the post written by FVM, in order to go on in the discussion.

*Paul* · #6 01-31-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth

That doesn't mean the others don't care but rather, waiting for the feedback from the writer of this thread or any other members toward the post written by FVM, in order to go on in the discussion.

Well it looks like Sola*5 has asked some questions that aren't too difficult to answer, so have at it by all means.

mohamedhassan · #7 01-31-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sola*5

Does a person just have to believe in a creator? Is a disbeliever only a person who denies a creator? It talks of not listening to messengers with their clear signs, do you think that every generation should have a messsenger with clear signs?

To start use the word prophet or messenger. This is because christians consider people like Paul an aplostale of god which no muslim exepts because between Jesus (as) and Mohammed (saw) there was no prophet

Firstly, the modern day signs are many for anyone willing to comprehend the truth. Today, people believe in what science and scientists say and the quran contains many miracles (you can check some on mirclesofislam.(com) also contains historical miracles which were predicted and were fulfilled. NONE of the perdictions ever made in the quran can be denied because they were fulfilled. An example is as a pose to christianity Allah says "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message(the quran and hadeeth); and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." Which has proven true for 1400 years and will prove to be true to the last day.

So the miracles exist till today and one only has to read the quran and see the miracles it produces.

About the abostles of Allah(sw), they start with Adam (as) and ended with Mohammed (s.a.w). The muslims today are the messengers of the messenger of Allah (sw). this is because no messenger will be sent to man kind After Mohammed (saw) because Allah(sw) has promised to protect his message from curroption like he didn't for those before (as in the true blievers of the messages of Musa(as) and Jesus (as)). Those messages were curropted and altered in many ways over time(Which every scholor of the bible and torah will admit)

Sorry if i couldn't be of any help but i'm running late to class but i hope you understand the concepts of Islam and i pray that Allah guides us all on the straght path

fullyveiled muslimah · #8 01-31-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

What modern day signs are there to people alive today? Old stories about miracles years ago are hardly convincing evidence of why allah should be believed today.

This what you have said is very true. This is why you will hardly find talk amongst the muslims about the miracles performed by the prophet. The miracles performed by the various prophets of Allah are almost irrelavent to people nowadays.

This is a question that requires long and thoughtful answer Sola so forgive me if it takes more than one or two posts to truly get across what I want to say. Modern day signs consist mainly in the intellect of mankind. Man has evolved intellectually since our inception in this world. We are able now more than ever to ponder over deeper concepts, and ask deeper questions. With this comes a greater responsibility than that of the people of the past. In the past it was required of the people to only believe with a minimal amount of actions, and also a minimal amount of question asking. This is mainly because these people had the various prophets in thier presence, or it was in the recent past. We today do not have the honor of actually seeing or communicating with any of the prophets of Allah. All we really have is the account of the prophets given to us via the many holy books that are in existance. In light of this seeming disadvantage Allah has supplied us with more intellect and capacity to understand vast concepts as well as simple ones. So what I am saying is with this intelligence, we should be able to understand and decipher the truth from these various writings. I say decipher because many of these books have been altered for many reasons. I won't get into that as it will take me far from what you are asking.

It is worthwhile for me to do a little backtracking and explanation. First, I would like to clarify what a messenger is in Islam. A messenger/prophet is a person that has been divinely chosen by Allah from among their own people to guide them to the straight path, from which they have either deviated or never known before. Allah says in Quran:

24. Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them.

Nation here does not mean country it means more like race of people. Allah is saying that He has sent to the nations of the world prophets from among them. The bani Israel had quite a few of them as borne out in the Bible. The Arabs received Muhammad and so on. I won't list them as that takes too long. A prophet is that person that is designated to make efforts to change the hearts of the people they are around. Changing the heart inevitably changes the actions of a person. A person cannot become a prophet through their own piety, sacrifices, own in any way of their own accord. Prophets will either be true or false. A true prophet of Allah teaches three things in general. They are:

a) Tawheed--- this is the oneness of Allah. Every prophet from Adam to Muhammad have all taught the same thing. That God is one without partners or co-Gods. Basically monotheism.

b) Risalat---- this is the teaching that they themselves were to be believed in as the messengers of God. They affirm the prophets that came before, and if there were any to follow they gave indication of that as well.

c) Akhirat---- This is the teaching that there is a such thing as hereafter. They teach that heaven and hell are actual places and how to avoid hell and obtain heaven.

As far as muslims are concerned Muhammad is the last prophet to come to the world. He is not the founder of Islam in general. He is the summary or the ending of the line of prophets.

What is Islam?

Allah has only ever revealed one religion to mankind and that is the religion of monotheism. That is the oldest religion. If you take a moment to do a little research, you will find that a great many religions, regardless of what they have become started out as monotheistic in nature. Even some religions who are admittedly polytheistic, when you read the earliest doctrines associated with that belief system, we find that there is a root somewhere in monotheism.

I am not finished, but since this requires such long explanation I will continue it tomorrow.

Paw · #9 01-31-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

It's a tragedy that Fully veiled Muslimah is the only muslim on this site who cares enough to try to warn people about what these signs might be so that they can avoid such a horrible destiny.

... Sure. I'm supposing you can back up that claim by having asked every Muslim on http://www.religiousforums.com whether they care?

As for the signs, well, you'll know what they are when you see them, I guess. Those apostles could be anyone. And who qualifies as an unbeliever... undoubtedly it is explained in the Qur'an.