Why or how is suicide sinful? (moral, tradition, doctrine, church)

[Guitar's Cry]

Originally Posted by michel

My last two attempts were for the benefit of my loved ones...

As far as I was concerned, I had logically evaluated that
a) My wife was young enough, and good looking enough to re-marry.
b) by my death she would be able to have a "propper" husband.
c) that by my death, my children would have a better/ good Father.

You obviously decided against it - which I'm sure has been a beneficial choice, one that the other members of this forum would agree with since you bring a lot of good stuff which I've seen in the short time I've been here - or, the attempts were unsuccessful. If you don't mind me asking, what has stopped you from attempting again? Or, why did you decide against it?

[MysticSang'ha]

It depends on the situation, really. Most often, suicide is an attempt to escape suffering within one's own experience. To this, from our perspective, this creates more bad karma. Human life is so precious, that to waste it because of our delusions is nothing but harmful to ourselves and to our loved ones.



However, that being said, on the rare occasion where choosing to die and taking action to die in order to save another life, this is very good karma. I think of the characters portrayed in Hollywood film productions, like in the movie Deep Impact, where the characters in the ship choose to carry nuclear weapons into the heart of an approaching comet and detonate it in order to save the Earth's population.



If I saw a speeding car approaching one of my kids in the street, and the only way to save them was to run into the street and push them out of the way ending in myself getting hit or run over............and then possibly dying from it..........I would absolutely do it. Sacrificing one's life for the sake of protecting another life in danger is great karma.



The topic of euthanasia is a complicated one and opinions vary in the Buddhist community. Just one example: voluntarily taking oneself off the machines keeping one alive if death is inevitable without it isn't considered suicide, and therefore doesn't generate bad karma.



Peace,
Mystic

[Guitar's Cry]

Originally Posted by Anti-World

Suicide is the one thing that we can control.

Is it the one thing we can control, or is even that out of our hands? If we take a deterministic stance, then that, as a choice, isn't any more a result of free will than any other choice.

Originally Posted by Anti-World

In our lives where everything seems to go wrong and even our own emotions are hostile, unforgiving, and unchangeable it's something we can do to get out of it. As for suicide not being done because it's selfish, that seems redundent, they don't really have to live with it.

One could argue that when everything seems to go wrong, perhaps the judgement on what is "wrong" needs to be evaluated. Our emotions can be hostile, and unforgiving, but I don't think they are unchangeable - completely. A negative emotion can be turned completely around with the right attitude.

Originally Posted by Anti-World

In life there is an A and a B. The beginning and the end. What happens in between is completely out of the hands of the individual. We can make the choices that were predestined to happen because of the way we are but there really isn't much control.

Ah, but in order for there to be a beginning and an end, there needs to be a middle. The between is the meat of the sandwich. It is here, though, where I cannot reason out why a person wishing to escape a deterministic existence is an immoral act, except that there may be those who would mourn for them.

But still, there is still everything to gain. In death, there may be nothing (I do not know for sure), so by continuing to live you are gaining experiences that may shake the very foundations of the negative emotions that have plagued you.

Originally Posted by Anti-World

That's my view of the subject, being a schizoid. To me, it's a way out of the inevitable cycle of pain. For these people they have two choices: Massochism or suicide.

Or a breaking of the negative cycle.

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by Ozzie

I consider suicide sinful because it is against life. I am interested in religious opinion on why or how suicide is sinful, or not.

To take your life could cause things to happen to you that disrupt the natural progression of your spirit. I believe in letting the natural course take its place over forcing the transition before the "Right" time. Some religion follow the same guide lines they just call it a "Sin" versus explaining it.

[jacquie4000]

I guess since the majority of society has not attempted sucicide, I find it hard for us to judge them as a whole. We can not be inside a persons inner most workings and understand what is truely going on from their point of view. To many people are quick to judge it as an ultimite sin or a cop out. We should work more on trying to solve and reslove the issue.

[sandy whitelinger]

There is no commandment against suicide in the Bible. There are instances where people have committed suicide, for example Samson, and there was no condemnation of it.

It could be argued, through interpretation, that Christ committed suicide. When brought to trial before the Sanhedrin there was no cause found to condemn Him (this included trying to find two liars to agree together) until Christ offered His own condemning statement.

There could be made an argument against it using the commandment of not killing but this needs an interpretation as to the nature of what killing really means.

[Gentoo]

I think that it's easy to say that it's wrong or that it depends on the situation. But, to me, it's neither. I can't judge it, I wasn't in the mind of the person contemplating it. If they feel that such a drastic action would "solve" their problems, what can we, as outsiders, say?

I think that suicide is tragic, and I often wish that they had failed in their attempts. Or maybe had a little more patience and stuck it out just one more day so things can get better. But it's not in my hands, what else can I really say...?

[Stairs In My House]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

If I saw a speeding car approaching one of my kids in the street, and the only way to save them was to run into the street and push them out of the way ending in myself getting hit or run over............and then possibly dying from it..........I would absolutely do it. Sacrificing one's life for the sake of protecting another life in danger is great karma.

I may be wrong, but I don't think this is generally considered suicide. And I definitely agree with you, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, it would not be done out of a desire to end my life, but to protect theirs.