Ethical Monotheism (morals, experience, atheist, morals, God)

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

This list is just from the Wiki entry on Zeus:

• Though Zeus could be petty and malicious, he also had a righteous element, perhaps best exemplified in his aid on behalf of Atreus and his murder of Capaneus for unbridled arrogance. He was also the protector of strangers and travelers against those who might seek to victimize them.
• Zeus turned Pandareus to stone for stealing the golden dog which had guarded him as an infant in the holy Dictaeon Cave of Crete.
• Zeus killed Salmoneus with a thunderbolt for attempting to impersonate him, riding around in a bronze chariot and loudly imitating thunder.
• Zeus turned Periphas into an eagle after his death, as a reward for being righteous and just.
• At the marriage of Zeus and Hera, a nymph named Chelone refused to attend. Zeus transformed her into a tortoise (chelone in Greek).
• Zeus, with Hera, turned King Haemus and Queen Rhodope into mountains (the Balkan mountains, or Stara Planina, and Rhodope mountains, respectively) for their vanity.
• Zeus condemned Tantalus to eternal torture in Tartarus for trying to trick the gods into eating the flesh of his butchered son.
• Zeus condemned Ixion be tied to a fiery wheel for eternity as punishment for attempting to violate Hera.
• Zeus sunk the Telchines beneath the sea for blighting the earth with their fell magics.
• Zeus blinded the seer Phineus and sent the Harpies to plague him as punishment for revealing the secrets of the gods.
• Zeus rewarded Tiresias with a life three times the norm as reward for ruling in his favour when he and Hera contested which of the sexes gained the most pleasure from the act of love.
• Zeus punished Hera by having her hung upside down from the sky when she attempted to drown Heracles in a storm.
• Of all the many, many children Zeus spawned, Hercules was often described as his favorite. Indeed, Hercules was often called by various gods and people as "the favorite son of Zeus", Zeus and Hercules were very close and in one story, where a tribe of earth-born Giants threatened Olympus and the Oracle at Delphi decreed that only the combined efforts of a lone god and mortal could stop the creature, Zeus chose Hercules to fight by his side. They proceeded to defeat the monsters.
• His sacred bird was the golden eagle, which he kept by his side at all times. Like him, the eagle was a symbol of strength, courage, and justice.
• His favourite tree was the oak, symbol of strength. Olive trees were also sacred to him.
• Zelus, Nike, Cratos and Bia were Zeus' retinue.

We understand --- or perhaps, misunderstand --- these tales to teach morality, but only because we moderns are accustomed to seeing moral lessons in myths. But did the ancient Greeks see moral lessons in their myths? That remains unanswered here.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

We understand --- or perhaps, misunderstand --- these tales to teach morality, but only because we moderns are accustomed to seeing moral lessons in myths. But did the ancient Greeks see moral lessons in their myths? That remains unanswered here.

I agree.

[Sunstone]

Another religion that I'm unsure about grounding a morality is Shinto.

[Radio Frequency X]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I think it was a fairly serious mistake to combine morality and religion. Doing so distracts from both religion and morality.

I agree completely.

[jacquie4000]

It is my personnal opinion that neither religion nor God's are necessary for morality, ethics, or values. They can exist just fine in a Godless secular context. As seen by all the atheists who lead moral lives.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Another religion that I'm unsure about grounding a morality is Shinto.

Shinto is another one I haven't studied much. According to Religioustolerance.org though:

Jinja (Shrine) Shinto: This is the largest Shinto group. It was the original form of the religion; its roots date back into pre-history. Until the end of World War II, it was closely aligned with State Shinto. The Emperor of Japan was worshipped as a living God. Almost all shrines in Japan are members of Jinja Honcho, the Association of Shinto Shrines. It currently includes about 80,000 shrines as members. The association urges followers of Shinto

1. "To be grateful for the blessings of Kami and the benefits of the ancestors, and to be diligent in the observance of the Shinto rites, applying oneself to them with sincerity. brightness, and purity of heart."
2. "To be helpful to others and in the world at large through deeds of service without thought of rewards, and to seek the advancement of the world as one whose life mediates the will of Kami."
3. "To bind oneself with others in harmonious acknowledgment of the will of the emperor, praying that the country may flourish and that other peoples too may live in peace and prosperity." 5

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I'm astonished that you would classify belief in Zeus and Aphrodite as "not a religion".

I didn't say that it was not a religion. I was conceding your point that belief in Zeus and Aphrodite might not prescribe a moral view. And then I was saying that there were other thought systems going on at the time that we don't normally think of as religions, such as Plato's philosophical materialism, that I would call religion.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger