Love the Jew that is christ (followers, elder, faith)

[NoahideHiker]

Originally Posted by XAAX

Not to say that I agree with any of the things that happened to the jews in history. But I often wonder if its Karma for what they did when they formed their religion. Such an extremely gender slanted religion has caused a title wave of such thought to continue and be built upon by other religions. So to answer your question, no I do not love the "original" jews...I actually detest them...No offense to any jewish people, just referring to the founders that were responsible.


Oh, If this was in reference to Jesus...to me, He was a great man, with a wonderful spirit, that was badly quoted and widely misunderstood.

Generally these types of statements are made through simple ignorance of the meanings behind many aspects of Judaism. If you dig deeper into Judaism you would find that women are held in the highest regard and respect in Judaism. Am I saying there was equal rights back then? No, but your statement is misguided though.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by XAAX

Not to say that I agree with any of the things that happened to the jews in history. But I often wonder if its Karma for what they did when they formed their religion. Such an extremely gender slanted religion has caused a title wave of such thought to continue and be built upon by other religions. So to answer your question, no I do not love the "original" jews...I actually detest them...No offense to any jewish people, just referring to the founders that were responsible.


Oh, If this was in reference to Jesus...to me, He was a great man, with a wonderful spirit, that was badly quoted and widely misunderstood.

Oh, yeah, because back in those days, Judaism was the only religion, nay the only society out there that treated women as less than men.
Do you think that the Hebrews were the first people on earth? Do you think that Judaism was the first religion on earth? Many societies existed before them, and most of them were polytheistic. Judaism just happened to be the first monotheistic religion that came on the scene.
And, furthermore, do you believe that Judaism bares the responsibility of the atrocities committed against women in the name of Christianity and Islam?

[Gentoo]

Now now, this thread is about loving..

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

Generally these types of statements are made through simple ignorance of the meanings behind many aspects of Judaism. If you dig deeper into Judaism you would find that women are held in the highest regard and respect in Judaism. Am I saying there was equal rights back then? No, but your statement is misguided though.

Noah, would you not agree that in pagan religions(pre-judaism) women had god like positions along side of men? Would you also not agree that in the bible(Old and New testemant) that women are to blame for the downfall of mankind? These are examples of what I mean..just to name a few..

The Garden of Eden; Samson and Delilah; King Solomon...there are many, and many versus to quote that talk of the great decievers that women are...I just really don't like quoting the bible anymore...

These are just a few from their religion. As far as the differences, in the islamic faith, god never blamed eve for the downfall of man. He looked at them as both being decieved by the devil. So one would see it from the stories alone that they did in fact "blame" women and lower them in standings that they had in previous religions..

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Oh, yeah, because back in those days, Judaism was the only religion, nay the only society out there that treated women as less than men.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Do you think that the Hebrews were the first people on earth? Do you think that Judaism was the first religion on earth? Many societies existed before them, and most of them were polytheistic. Judaism just happened to be the first monotheistic religion that came on the scene.

No, there were others...none to become so popular to change the world view like Judaism has done.

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

And, furthermore, do you believe that Judaism bares the responsibility of the atrocities committed against women in the name of Christianity and Islam?

I would have to answer yes, to a degree they do...If you stand on a mountain and push a boulder over a cliff. Now if you intended for that boulder to kill anyone or not, you still are responsible for it moving in the first place. I do believe every man and woman is only responsible for their own actions, but your influence to a degree can come back on you as well. Charles Manson is an example of what I mean with this . He didn't kill anyone directly, but he did influence others to do so. He will receive that negative Karma as well.

[ayani]

Jesus / Yeshua as Teacher

[NoahideHiker]

Noah, would you not agree that in pagan religions(pre-judaism) women had god like positions along side of men?

Yes but this is their religion and I have no problem with their beliefs but I'm not going to say that all the ills and bad things happened to them as punishment. And I'd hardly expect moral critique of someone else's religion concerning equal rights while trying to prop up a religion that practiced human sacrifices upto and including babies.

One thing that is unique about Judaism that is different from every other religion I know of is that their sins and unrightouseness are laid out there for all to see. Every time Israel screwed up is in the writings and their punishments as well. This undoubtedly opens them up for comments such as yours also.

Would you also not agree that in the bible(Old and New testemant) that women are to blame for the downfall of mankind? These are examples of what I mean..just to name a few..

With all due respect I am not talking about christianity. Christianity is Christianity and Judaism is Judaism. Judaism does not hold to the concept of origanal sin and the "downfall of man". judiams explicitly lays the blame on both Adam and Eve which is evedenced by the fact they were both punished.
So one would see it from the stories alone that they did in fact "blame" women and lower them in standings that they had in previous religions..

This is where the ignorance comes into play. Judaism and it's tenants and traditions and it's beliefs are not found nor contained just in the books of the Tanach. When you sit down and read the Jewish scriptures you are getting but a thumbnail sketch. You also need to look at the Talmud, the Gramara, and the writings of the sages to fully understand them. Judaism is so deep and old that we don't even begin to understand it nor have a full appriciation for it until we can study it from a Jewish perspective or at the very least unbiased.

Here are some great links that only begin to scratch the surface of how women are held in Judaism. When judging or learning about a religion learn it from that religion. Cliff Notes don't work for religion.

http://www.torah.org/learning/women/archives.html
http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm
http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=405&o=2519
http://www.beingjewish.com/faqs/men_women.html

[NoahideHiker]

Oh yea i forgot, I love Jesus too.
LOL!

Sorry for the derailment of the thread. I'll let it drop here take it up somehwere else if need be.

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

This is where the ignorance comes into play. Judaism and it's tenants and traditions and it's beliefs are not found nor contained just in the books of the Tanach. When you sit down and read the Jewish scriptures you are getting but a thumbnail sketch. You also need to look at the Talmud, the Gramara, and the writings of the sages to fully understand them. Judaism is so deep and old that we don't even begin to understand it nor have a full appriciation for it until we can study it from a Jewish perspective or at the very least unbiased.

I agree with you Noah on many aspects here. I have a friend that is a wiz in languages. He is one of these guys you see in the movies where they hold up in their houses deciphering books. To most people this guy would be looked at as a nut(well, he is in some ways). But he is genius in what he does. Anyway, he has pointed out to me numerous places where the ancient meanings of texts have been misinterpreted and the meaning changed entirely. So yes, I will agree that I am ignorant to what the original meaning of a lot of Judaism is. But I will also say that so are most of its followers. This if where you get into gray area that I have pondered on before. Lets say a friend asks me to make him a wand. I put my energy into its creation. Now that friend goes out and uses it for a negative purpose. I can claim that I only made it and am not responsible for what others do with my creation. But, had I not made the wand in the first place it could have never been used for wrong. You see the paradox. The same goes for religion with me. If I were to start a religion. Then sometime in the future others go out in my name and kill others. I would bare that responsibility. Wouldn't you agree?