Terrible consequences (moral, Creator, beliefs, Israel, protestants)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Sam Harris, in Letter to a Christian Nation, makes the point that religious beliefs have some terrible consequences for human society.

[Religious people] believe that the creator of the universe wants them to [kill other human beings]. Islamist terrorism is a recent example of this sort of behavior. Second, far greater numbers of people fall into conflict with one another because they define their moral community on the basis of their religious affiliation: Muslims side with other Muslims, Protestants with Protestants, Catholics with Catholics. These conflicts are not always explicitly religious. But the bigotry and hatred that divide one community from another are often the products of their religious identities. Conflicts that seem driven entirely by terrestrial concerns, therefore, are often deeply rooted in religion.

Sam Harris goes on to list a few recent religious “hot spots”

• Palestine (Jews vs. Muslims)
• The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians vs. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians vs. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
• Northern Ireland (Protestants vs. Catholics)
• Kashmir (Muslims vs. Hindus), Sudan (Muslims vs. Christians and animists)
• Nigeria (Muslims vs. Christians)
• Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims vs. Christians)
• Iyory Coast (Muslims vs. Christians)
• Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists vs. Tamil Hindus)
• Philippines (Muslims vs. Christians)
• Iran and Iraq (Shiite s. Sunni Muslims)
• The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians vs. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis vs. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

Discuss

[Bouncing Ball]

Lets talk about football and how many kills would happen between clubs and supporters if we couldn't use religion as reason..
Or wait, the skin of color! that could be a reason.. Or democrats or... <_<

[jewscout]

well in the case of Israel...the issue is more political, not religious

remember the majority of the early zionists who founded the state were secular jews, not religious.

[ayani]

this is true. people seem to enjoy disliking and fighting one another. on the other hand... i also feel that the best way to meaningfully address religious violence is through religious language and thought. the same faith that can give an excuse to hate one's neighbor can also be expounded in a way to encourage dialogue and co-operation. we can't just "do away with religion". it's going to be there, and it's going to be important to people.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by jewscout

well in the case of Israel...the issue is more political, not religious

remember the majority of the early zionists who founded the state were secular jews, not religious.

I tend to agree.However, the deadly opposition to Isreal is religious.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by gracie

this is true. people seem to enjoy disliking and fighting one another. on the other hand... i also feel that the best way to meaningfully address religious violence is through religious language and thought. the same faith that can give an excuse to hate one's neighbor can also be expounded in a way to encourage dialogue and co-operation. we can't just "do away with religion". it's going to be there, and it's going to be important to people.

If you (not the personal you, Gracie) recognize a right to one's own faith, I don't see how you can condemn or persuade the violent adherants of the faith one shares with them. The problem mostly resides in the various scripures that are ambigious.

[Sunstone]

I think Gracie is correct that religion is too deeply rooted in us to go away, and consequently, the problem becomes one of reforming it rather than one of abolishing it. Yet, as Brightness notes, how does one change the ambiguity of holy scripture on the issue of violence and extremism?

[ayani]

Originally Posted by Bright-ness

If you (not the personal you, Gracie) recognize a right to one's own faith, I don't see how you can condemn or persuade the violent adherants of the faith one shares with them. The problem mostly resides in the various scripures that are ambigious.

but there's a difference between recognizing my right to faith and recognizing (permitting) my "right" to shoot my neighbor based on my interpretation of that faith. one can not say "my faith commands me to kill" and get away with murder. regardless of what one's holy book says, the responsibility to curb anger lies with the individual.

[jewscout]