The Trinity (Jesus, reject, Creator, gospel, crucified)

[thriftypassenger]

I have been exchanging emails with a Muslim for a while, and the last email I got was about the Trinity in Christianity. He says, that the Trinity makes Christianity Polytheistic.

Is there anyone who can explain the Trinity to me?
I don't know how to explain to him, that Christians consider themselves Monotheistic.

[RRu]

the trinity is extremely hard to comprehend let alone explain.

basically God is three persons yet one. not three personallities not three forms... three distinct persons, yet one God.

A good metaphore i've heard for this is....

length, height, depth.

three separate "persons" yet they are all space.

not a perfect explaination, but if thats any good, hopefully you can explain it a bit better.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Well he may already understand that christians consider themselves monotheistic. As a former christian, I also understand that any christian will tell you that they worship One God. Truly that is the teaching of christianity. However, a muslim cannot reconcile the worship of Jesus with the worship of God. In our eyes Jesus is not God, only a messenger of God sent to the world for guidance. Muslims do not deny the virgin birth, the revelation given to Nabi Isa (Jesus) namely the Injeel or gospel, nor do we deny the many miracles performed by Jesus. Muslims view all these things with a different perspective though. The miraculous birth of Jesus is a show of power by Allah. It only signifies for us that Allah is able to do all things no matter how improbable they are or seem to be. The miracles performed by Isa are also duly noted an accepted by muslims. From the healing of the lepers, the sight given to the blind, to the raising of the dead are all acceptable by muslims. A christian may wonder why if muslims beleive these things, do they not accept Jesus as God. Simply put, muslims know that any miracle performed by any of the prophets of Allah is from Allah. Allah has permitted that the prophet do some miracle as a proof to the people of that time that they indeed have been sent by Allah for guidance. The prophets are not acting independantly from Allah. All of the prophets including Muhammad performed some miracle during their time as an immediate proof to those able to witness it, that they were sent by God.

Furthermore, Jesus was a human being. He was born from a human mother. To my knowledge no human woman has ever birthed anything other than another human. Jesus walked around, talked, slept, ate, performed normal body functions such as urinating and so forth. From our vantage point no human no matter what status they hold can ever be elevated to God status. To us Jesus is not God in any way because of the reasons I listed. God is all powerful and is not in need of anything. Yet Jesus needed things like food to survive, shelter from the elements, water, and rest. By our definition God does not eat, nor tire, or need rest. Also, God cannot be harmed least of all by His creations. Jesus is reported to have been crucified.

The concept of the trinity is polytheism to us because it is saying that first of all God has lineage. Many christians believe that Jesus is the literal son of God. Muslims hold the view that lineage is a human and animal trait. People have families because we must procreate to survive as a species. All of the purposes of lineage that serve humans are non-issues for God. God simply has no use for such things. There is only one God, so therefore no procreation is necessary. Muslims view it as below the supreme majesty of a being such as God to have anything even slightly remeniscent of family.

The biggest reason for a muslims rejection of the concept of trinity as polytheistic is that it means one must associate a partner with God. Jesus is seen sometimes as an equal with God, or some of the unique qualities of God are attributed to Jesus. Things like the power to forgive a person is a quality that only God has. By forgive I mean the forgiveness of sins and disobediance to the commandments of God. I know from my years as a missionary baptist christian, that Jesus was seen as like a co-God with God, and we were taught that Jesus is God's equal partner. Not every denomination of christianity subscribes to this exactly, but I am using my experiance as an example.

I did not say this like I meant to say, because there is a lot of explanation missing from what I gave. I know this does not answer the question that you asked, but my goal was to give an insight as to a muslim's train of thought on what constitutes polytheism. Islam has very strict rules that guard against the worship of anything except the Creator. The concept of the trinity would never be accepted as monotheism by a muslim who understands the Islamic concept of what monotheism is. So in actuality it doesn't matter how eloquently you express this belief, if he is knowledgeable of Islam, he cannot by default accept the explanation.

Please forgive me if I have offended you as it was not my intention to do so. I simply wished to provide a more in depth reason as to why muslims think trinity is in essence polytheism, as opposed to just saying 'no we don't accept it'. It is not my intention to attack your beliefs in anyway, as you are entitled to them, nor is it my intention to tell you that you are wrong and I am right.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by RRu

A good metaphore i've heard for this is....

length, height, depth.

three separate "persons" yet they are all space.

The other common example I hear is water: vapor, water (liquid) and ice.

All analogies fall short, unfortunately.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by RRu

three distinct persons, yet one God.

As a non-Trinitarian Christian, I would go along with this definition. Still, if each of these Persons is "God," your Muslim friend is thinking that either Christians can't count to three or else they're playing word games. The doctrine of the Trinity came about in the first place as a result of man's attempt to reconcile the notion of a divine Father, a divine Son, and a divine Holy Spirit with the strict monotheism of the Old Testament. Rather than concede that the three can be "one" in some way other than numerically (i.e. united in will and purpose), the concept of a single "essence" was invented. Supposedly you can get away with calling yourself monotheistic as long as you qualify that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are "three in one" and not just "three, acting and feeling as one."

[Mister Emu]

Is there anyone who can explain the Trinity to me?

Impossible I tells ya!

H2O(anything actually) at the triple-point is liquid, gas, and solid at the same time.
Water is not the same as ice, and neither is the same as steam, yet all are H2O and coexist at the same time. Still not perfect...

Islam has very strict rules that guard against the worship of anything except the Creator.

Of course, as Christians, we believe that Jesus IS the creator.

Originally Posted by John 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Supposedly you can get away with calling yourself monotheistic as long as you qualify that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are "three in one" and not just "three, acting and feeling as one."

We are not Polytheists, because we don't believe in multiple gods.

All analogies fall short, unfortunately.

Of course.

[thriftypassenger]

I am still, confused.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by thriftypassenger

I am still, confused.

Well, of course you are. It's confusing! Tell me, are you a Christian, and if so, how do you conceive of God?

[thriftypassenger]

I was raised in a Christian family, and as of now I still believe Jesus died for my sins and all that, but I have been looking into other religions to see what they offer.

I kind of, think of God as understanding, and not really religion specific. I think that he would just want us to have faith in him in general, which I guess is not really a Christian value, because then Jesus wouldn't be nessecary for salvation.

I am, just. Confused in general.

[dawny0826]

God in THREE persons, blessed trinity.

ONE GOD...who manifests into three...

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit...three separate entities...manifestations of ONE GOD ALMIGHTY.

I see it as:

God is not only our creater but FATHER...He came to us in the flesh as the SON and He exists in Spirit...HOLY GHOST.

I worship ONE God...but He wears different hats. He's limitless. He's all powerful. He's all knowing.