Not peace, but a sword (Jesus, ritual, Earth, Messiah)

[Popeyesays]

King James Version:
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
-----------------------------------
"To confirm orthodox Christian opinion it is customary in all churches to read on
Christmas morning, as if it referred to Jesus, the passage which Isaiah wrote about the
Lord of Hosts (Isaiah ix 6-7)
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon his shoulder: and I his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The,
mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his
government and peace I there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon
his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will, perform this."
Yet the descriptive titles given do not belong exclusively to Christ, while some of
them He specifically repudiated as if to make such a mistaken reference to Himself impossible. He disclaimed being the
Mighty God when He called Himself "the Son of God;"l disclaimed being the Father when
He said, "my Father is greater than I;"2 and being the Prince of Peace when He said,
"I came not to send peace, but a sword."3 He disclaimed bearing the government upon His
shoulder or that it would be His judgment and justice forever when He said, "My kingdom
is not of this world."4"

The "sword" being described is not a sword of metal, but the sword the word of God provides for cleaving believer from unbeliever, even under the same roof. It's man's responsibility if he chooses to take that individual decision and use it as an excuse for killing and violence, not God's.

Regards,
Scott

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

King James Version:
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
-----------------------------------
"To confirm orthodox Christian opinion it is customary in all churches to read on
Christmas morning, as if it referred to Jesus, the passage which Isaiah wrote about the
Lord of Hosts (Isaiah ix 6-7)
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon his shoulder: and I his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The,
mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his
government and peace I there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon
his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will, perform this."
Yet the descriptive titles given do not belong exclusively to Christ, while some of
them He specifically repudiated as if to make such a mistaken reference to Himself impossible. He disclaimed being the
Mighty God when He called Himself "the Son of God;"l disclaimed being the Father when
He said, "my Father is greater than I;"2 and being the Prince of Peace when He said,
"I came not to send peace, but a sword."3 He disclaimed bearing the government upon His
shoulder or that it would be His judgment and justice forever when He said, "My kingdom
is not of this world."4"

The "sword" being described is not a sword of metal, but the sword the word of God provides for cleaving believer from unbeliever, even under the same roof. It's man's responsibility if he chooses to take that individual decision and use it as an excuse for killing and violence, not God's.

Regards,
Scott

I am not clear on what you wish to debate here. BTW I can understand using a metaphorical or real sword to keep a family intact, but not to sever it.

[Scuba Pete]

The sword is not meant to split people up... it's to do open heart surgery.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. NIV

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Ozzie

I am not clear on what you wish to debate here. BTW I can understand using a metaphorical or real sword to keep a family intact, but not to sever it.

I believe the debate whether Christ fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy. Christians see Christ as fulfilling Isaiah in His life, resurrection and return. Baha'is see it being fulfilled in an ongoing string of Manifestations of God including Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah.

2 c,
luna

[arielmessenger]

Jesus' mentioning of swords is metaphoric except for his commanding Peter to sheath his sword and not fight. But now God has provided the world with what will become the ultimate meaning for the Christian spiritual Sword--Paxcalibur, Sword of Peace, clear Sign of the Messiah of the Religion of Peace, and the new Word of God that will radiate out from Jerusalem for generations to come.

Please go to www.paxcalibur.org and there follow the Biomystical Christianity link to the Story of Paxcalibur. A real live magic sword has been born, one that will make the mythical Excalibur sword pale into insignificance in comparison.

[Scuba Pete]

I must admit, that I am quite uncomfortable with your "paxcalibur". I want nothing to do with it.

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by Ozzie

I am not clear on what you wish to debate here. BTW I can understand using a metaphorical or real sword to keep a family intact, but not to sever it.

Metaphorically speaking, Christ's message severed father from son-husband from wife, brother from brother, etc. THe father of the household heard and followed or didn't and his son did the opposite, therefore the family was severed from itself.

The message itself was the sword.

Regards,
Scott

[Popeyesays]

Actually, the concept of the Message being the sword was mentioned in another thread, I wanted to see how many different discussions it might engender.

Regards,
Scott