Can We Have A Direct Experience Of Deity? (divine)

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Precisely! So, can we know that we've had an experience of deity that is unmediated by consciousness?

But at the same time, to have an experience of deity is to lose one's sense of self.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Wouldn't you lose your ability to have any experience if you lost awareness of being your self?

I think you would loose your ability to know of the experience you were having, although you might be able to figure out after the fact that you had had some experience based on changes you noticed to yourself.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

But at the same time, to have an experience of deity is to lose one's sense of self.

Or, at the very least, to alter one's sense of self.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I think you would loose your ability to know of the experience you were having, although you might be able to figure out after the fact that you had had some experience based on changes you noticed to yourself.

Good point. I think that's a useful way to think about it.

I wrote something similar a couple of months ago about altered states of consciousness in response to one of your topics.

Edit: This thread.

The self has to be experiencing the self, for the self to know the self has transcened itself.

I can have moments of freedom from self, but I can't experience them. The only reason I am aware of them is when the moment is over and I become conscious that I have an unaccounted for time where awareness was absent. And then I can't recollect the experience as anything other than a vague feeling - I call these "ephiphanies," the sudden recollection of the feeling of the momentary bliss or ecstasy of transcending self. Looking back on a dream in which I wasn't my self, I may recall some details, but I can never quite grasp the feeling of not being me when consciousness of being me is present.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Precisely! So, can we know that we've had an experience of deity that is unmediated by consciousness?

As an agnostic, I believe that we cannot know deity.

[Buttercup]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

On what grounds can we ascribe a purpose to such things? Is it possible to know of any purpose to an experience of deity?

My thoughts are that if we had an experience of deity it would be for some purpose. Obviously deity is more powerful than us right? Can you think of any deity that is not? Therefore, if a deity makes itself known to us...there has to be a reason. Discerning that reason would be our job.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

My thoughts are that if we had an experience of deity it would be for some purpose. Obviously deity is more powerful than us right? Can you think of any deity that is not? Therefore, if a deity makes itself known to us...there has to be a reason. Discerning that reason would be our job.

I believe I understand your point, but I fear I must disagree. I don't think the power of deity necessarily implies that deity must have a purpose in making itself known to us. Rather, I think it is impossible to know whether deity has any purpose or not in that. Maybe it's just being whimsical. Or perhaps, its purpose, if it has one, is beyond our comprehension.