Celibacy in religion (ritual, choices, choice, spiritual, organization)

[Burchfam]

Originally Posted by PureX

I understand. But you still hold to the idea that sexuality is antithetical to spirituality, yet you have no real experience of sexuality, even in all these years, to show you differently. Could you be wrong about this?

I wouldn't have persevered for so long if I thought I might be wrong. Besides, what a waste of 20 years if I am!

[JMoum04]

Originally Posted by Burchfam

I wouldn't have persevered for so long if I thought I might be wrong. Besides, what a waste of 20 years if I am!

Even if you are wrong, those twenty years weren't a waste. All of the willpowere that you exercised durring all this time, imagine the strength it gave you.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Burchfam

I wouldn't have persevered for so long if I thought I might be wrong. Besides, what a waste of 20 years if I am!

Yes, I agree. But in my life I have met people who persevered in an error their whole lives, precisely because they couldn't face the idea of their having been wrong. So as each year went by, it just added all the more incentive for them to remain in error.

I lived in this kind of trap myself, and went on in it for many years (until I was 35 years old) before circumstances changed and I was no longer able to maintain my blindness. Had external circumstances not changed, and MADE me face the rror of my thinking, I would likely still be thinking as I did, just because it was too devistating for me to face up to the magnitude of my own error.

[Burchfam]

Originally Posted by jmoum

Even if you are wrong, those twenty years weren't a waste. All of the willpowere that you exercised durring all this time, imagine the strength it gave you.

Yes, thank you! And all those exercises have kept me very fit as well.

[Random]

Celibacy can be freely chosen by anyone for numerous reasons, but it is not without exemption: I am celibate, but were I to fall in love with a woman tomorrow I would be happy to have sexual relations in the context of that love: but until then...

1) Celibacy is a matter of ascetic discipline for some. It is part of retraining the mind, unlearning what you know, refining the instincts and controlling emotions.

2) Celibacy is an expression of love in itself: for in the absence of lust, the heart will out and the feelings therein projected into mundane everyday life: you can come to love everything and everyone in a way that is both wonderful and anomalous to oneself: this is the mystery of love expressed beyond the physical. There is nothing wrong with it @ all.

3) Celibacy is the only sane and unselfish option for one who wishes to delve into the spiritual realms and self-contemplation deeply: does anyone think it would be fair to a woman to invlove her in ones own persistent dilemma by having a relationship which should be the sole focus of a person, but isn't because all this other stuff is going on: would that be fair to a lover? Would it be reasonable to invlove a woman in ones own existential struggles and thus make her merely an adjunct to ones own ongoing exegesis?

4) Celibacy does not forbid sexual experimentation under controlled conditions: I have practiced Tantra with several partners with the aim of understanding the spiritual content of the strange moment of self-absence one experiences @ the height of orgasm. I have found that both sex and non-sex are identical expressions @ a high level of the same energy.

5) Celibacy is a choice not a requirement for "being spiritual": that is rubbish. It is there to facilitate a special kind of discipline and contemplation. It does not have to be a life-long thing.

These are the best reasons I can think of for it. I hope somebody understands.

[Burchfam]

Originally Posted by PureX

Yes, I agree. But in my life I have met people who persevered in an error their whole lives, precisely because they couldn't face the idea of their having been wrong. So as each year went by, it just added all the more incentive for them to remain in error.

I lived in this kind of trap myself, and went on in it for many years (until I was 35 years old) before circumstances changed and I was no longer able to maintain my blindness. Had external circumstances not changed, and MADE me face the rror of my thinking, I would likely still be thinking as I did, just because it was too devistating for me to face up to the magnitude of my own error.

Well, I certainly understand what you're saying, but no part of me believes that I might be in error. If anything my conviction of this has only grown with time. I couldn't imagine my life any other way now.

[d.]

Originally Posted by PureX

It seems to me that a religion that's not in favor of life, is in favor of death.

[Burchfam]

Originally Posted by Godlike

Celibacy can be freely chosen by anyone for numerous reasons, but it is not without exemption: I am celibate, but were I to fall in love with a woman tomorrow I would be happy to have sexual relations in the context of that love: but until then...

1) Celibacy is a matter of ascetic discipline for some. It is part of retraining the mind, unlearning what you know, refining the instincts and controlling emotions.

2) Celibacy is an expression of love in itself: for in the absence of lust, the heart will out and the feelings therein projected into mundane everyday life: you can come to love everything and everyone in a way that is both wonderful and anomalous to oneself: this is the mystery of love expressed beyond the physical. There is nothing wrong with it @ all.

3) Celibacy is the only sane and unselfish option for one who wishes to delve into the spiritual realms and self-contemplation deeply: does anyone think it would be fair to a woman to invlove her in ones own persistent dilemma by having a relationship which should be the sole focus of a person, but isn't because all this other stuff is going on: would that be fair to a lover? Would it be reasonable to invlove a woman in ones own existential struggles and thus make her merely an adjunct to ones own ongoing exegesis?

4) Celibacy does not forbid sexual experimentation under controlled conditions: I have practiced Tantra with several partners with the aim of understanding the spiritual content of the strange moment of self-absence one experiences @ the height of orgasm. I have found that both sex and non-sex are identical expressions @ a high level of the same energy.

5) Celibacy is a choice not a requirement for "being spiritual": that is rubbish. It is there to facilitate a special kind of discipline and contemplation. It does not have to be a life-long thing.

These are the best reasons I can think of for it. I hope somebody understands.

I certainly agree with almost eveything you said, except that for me the commitment is life-long, and I'm not really sure what you meant about orgasms but for us they are not allowed.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Burchfam

Well, I certainly understand what you're saying, but no part of me believes that I might be in error. If anything my conviction of this has only grown with time. I couldn't imagine my life any other way now.

Then I thank you sincerely for sharing your ideas and experiences so openly with me/us. And I welcome you to RF as a valued addition to the discourse. *smile* I need to go pick up a friend at the airport, though, so I'll have to check in with you, later.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by PureX

Then I thank you sincerely for sharing your ideas and experiences so openly with me/us. And I welcome you to RF as a valued addition to the discourse.

I second that. There are many aesetic religions, but you don't see their adherents hanging out on the Net answering questions very often, so this is a rare opportunity.