Freedom and Liberty over religion? (mission, philosophy, religions, muslims)

[St0ne]

To me these two things are more imporant to me than religion although having both precludes that I will have religion. However the way I see it if Religion is put above F&L then I will not have F&L. So to me it is commonsense that F&L should always be held higher than religion, we can jusify this by the FACT that no religion has been proven to be without a doubt FACTUAL.

Is there any reason why any person would not agree with this, should not everyone have F&L including importantly freedom of religion? One creates peace the other division.

[Sunstone]

I'm not entirely following you, Stone. Could you elaborate a bit on why you think religion is incompatible with freedom and liberty?

[Booko]

Originally Posted by St0ne

Is there any reason why any person would not agree with this, should not everyone have F&L including importantly freedom of religion? One creates peace the other division.

As the Muslims would say: There is no freedom save in submission to Allah.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by St0ne

To me these two things are more imporant to me than religion although having both precludes that I will have religion.

First of all, what is the distinction that you see between freedom and liberty?

Originally Posted by St0ne

However the way I see it if Religion is put above F&L then I will not have F&L. So to me it is commonsense that F&L should always be held higher than religion, we can jusify this by the FACT that no religion has been proven to be without a doubt FACTUAL.

How does it logically follow that if no religion has been proven FACTUAL that means that F&L must be held higher than religion?

Originally Posted by St0ne

Is there any reason why any person would not agree with this, should not everyone have F&L including importantly freedom of religion? One creates peace the other division.

What is the significance of freedom of religion in your mind if you believe that you can't have religion without losing the two things that you think everyone should have? Are you saying that people should be free to lose their freedom?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Booko

As the Muslims would say: There is no freedom save in submission to Allah.

As many UUs would say: Freedom is not the ability to do whatever we want to do; freedom is the ability to do what our consciences tell us that we must do.

[St0ne]

Originally Posted by lilithu

First of all, what is the distinction that you see between freedom and liberty?


How does it logically follow that if no religion has been proven FACTUAL that means that F&L must be held higher than religion?


What is the significance of freedom of religion in your mind if you believe that you can't have religion without losing the two things that you think everyone should have? Are you saying that people should be free to lose their freedom?

1. By Liberty I mean the political philosophy, yeah it's the same thing but liberty applies to politics better I think.

2. I see your point, I guess it must be because F&L promote and allow free thought so that if it were ever to change at least we would know about it.

3. I don't think religion above F&L will equal a loss of F&L, obviously I was being to general. I do think that some people within some religions do it then it most definately does, even those without religion can do it.

Sorry if I'm being Incoherant

[Ðanisty]

My religion is all about freedom and liberty.

[St0ne]

I'm trying to nut out how your freedom should be protected by religion that will remove it, of course you should be free to live how you like but not to inflict that decision on someone else... hang on

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=67084

I guess that says it, the only I don't agree with there is it implies that your worth, what you are is decided by your property.