Second-hand Revelation: Some guy said God told him to tell you… (Jesus Christ, Earth)

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by stephenw

I don't know what God is like, I only know how God seems to me.

But God requires us to worship in Spirit and in truth. We can't create a god in the image of a Golden Calf, can we? Do you believe in the 10 Commandments? Here's the first 5.

And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

[stephenw]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

But God requires us to worship in Spirit and in truth. We can't create a god in the image of a Golden Calf, can we? Do you believe in the 10 Commandments? Here's the first 5.

And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

What's the relevance to my post?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Christian humanism is not based on Biblical truth, nor bibilcal revelation...

Christian humanism is based on the teachings of Jesus, which was based on Jewish teachings.

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

BTW, Pelagius is considered to be the father of humanism and was declared to be a heretic.

Why should anyone care whether he was considered a heretic by some? Every time there is a disagreement on doctrine, the "other side" gets labeled "heretic." Thus, everyone is a heretic to someone else.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

One could say that virtually every verse in the Bible, Qu’ran, or other holy text from a revealed religion could be preceded by "Some guy said God told him to tell you..." Millions have taken it for granted that an omnipotent God chose second-hand revelation as a primary method to communicate to us.

One seeming paradox of second-hand revelation is that God supposedly had a message for all of humanity, but God told just a few guys. For unexplained reasons, God apparently stopped communicating that way from then on, putting the burden on them to be messenger boys. Well, perhaps God didn’t stop entirely, as we continue to get claims of revelation periodically, but many revelations claim to be the final one and pronounce dire warnings to any who claim later ones. That might explain the tendency for many to accept ancient revelation over modern revelation.

If God uses a few selected scribes to reveal all-important truths to the rest of us, we are essentially stuck taking their word for it. To me, it seems ironic and contradictory that God allegedly would want a personal relationship but then use bronze-age tribesmen as agents to obtain it.

Why would an omnipotent being choose this method in the first place, with all the risks of translation error, copy error, miscommunication, cross-cultural differences, appearance of favoritism, inherent limits of human language, and so on? It can’t be more trouble to simply speak to us directly, if omnipotence is a reality.

Why are conflicting revelations allowed?

Some claim that the path to eternal salvation lies in second-hand revelation. If so, wouldn't that place your salvation into the hands a fallible human? It seems odd that this arguably most important of truths would be communicated indirectly by fallible humans, especially when God is said to be omnipotent.

Would the originating force behind the entire universe choose a method so fraught with potential for trouble? As if God needed a spokesguy... In the churches of my youth, we simply took it for granted and never gave it a second thought. Is that common?

No, I came to the conclusion myself that God is love and then lo and behold, discovered that this has already been described in religious texts. Talk about re-inventing the wheel!

[Charity]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

But when you accept the scriptures as God's word, aren't you already taking someone else's word for what God says? You're just taking the word of dead guys over the word of guys you know.

I don't just rely on scripture, I have had personal experience before I ever read the Bible. I don't put my faith in man or his word, but in God........

[Storm]

I don't trust second-hand revelation. If God has a message for me, why would God give it to the wrong person?

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Storm

I don't trust second-hand revelation. If God has a message for me, why would God give it to the wrong person?

Because you didn't live 2,000 years ago when God became flesh, He had his Word recorded for future generations to believe in Him. Jesus did pray for all future generation Christians while He walked this Earth.

John 17

Jesus Prays for All Believers

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

[Storm]

Your God is omnipotent, so either it's important enough to tell me Himself, or it's not. Since He hasn't....

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Storm

Your God is omnipotent, so either it's important enough to tell me Himself, or it's not. Since He hasn't....

Romans chapter 9

[Storm]

Is second hand.