A God For All Seasons? (Jesus Christ, rituals, punishment, Moses)

cardero · #1 10-09-2006, 06:28 AM

In the recent thread “To Kill Or Not To Kill” I couldn’t help noticing that there were some members who seemed to be in acceptance of God’s behavior or at least understanding about the commandments that were issued to a primitive Biblical culture in the Old Testament. They seem to support the behavior of this deity in light of the times of that culture’s traditions and rituals.
Yet today we do not have people being stoned for adultery or children being stoned for disrespecting their parents or even sacrificial burnt offerings. Does this go against the will of God? Can we discontinue doing these things and still faithfully claim that we are following God? Should we be ashamed of these penalties and punishments and the fact that God expected this behavior from our ancestors? Does God change or bend his will in accordance to our own modernizations or should we be suspicious of a God who has stopped asking for animal sacrifices?

sparkyluv · #2 10-09-2006, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardero

In the recent thread “To Kill Or Not To Kill” I couldn’t help noticing that there were some members who seemed to be in acceptance of God’s behavior or at least understanding about the commandments that were issued to a primitive Biblical culture in the Old Testament. They seem to support the behavior of this deity in light of the times of that culture’s traditions and rituals.
Yet today we do not have people being stoned for adultery or children being stoned for disrespecting their parents or even sacrificial burnt offerings. Does this go against the will of God? Can we discontinue doing these things and still faithfully claim that we are following God? Should we be ashamed of these penalties and punishments and the fact that God expected this behavior from our ancestors? Does God change or bend his will in accordance to our own modernizations or should we be suspicious of a God who has stopped asking for animal sacrifices?

John 8:1-11 <----- That's why we don't stone people anyone anymore. The Law of Moses was...kind of reshaped when Jesus came. God never changed his plan or his will. Jesus coming and reshaping everything was apart of his whole plan.

God doesn't ask for animal sacrifices anymore because Jesus (The Lamb of God) was the final blood sacrifice.

michel · #3 10-09-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkyluv

John 8:1-11 <----- That's why we don't stone people anyone anymore. The Law of Moses was...kind of reshaped when Jesus came. God never changed his plan or his will. Jesus coming and reshaping everything was apart of his whole plan.

God doesn't ask for animal sacrifices anymore because Jesus (The Lamb of God) was the final blood sacrifice.

Hey! That's a good reply!

cardero · #4 10-09-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Sparkyluv writes: John 8:1-11 <----- That's why we don't stone people anyone anymore. The Law of Moses was...kind of reshaped when Jesus came. God never changed his plan or his will. Jesus coming and reshaping everything was apart of his whole plan.

If you reread the thread To Kill Or Not To Kill one of the points in God’s plan is the written commandment that God gave to the Israelites that "thou shall not kiil/murder" yet it was murder that was encouraged and perpetrated throughout this whole plan. Could God have found another way to implement this plan? Are we still obliged to this particular commandment or has that been reshaped too? Are you comfortable about the way that God’s plan has unfolded? Is there anyway that God could have planned more carefully so that many people did not have to be killed or murdered? Do we have blood on our hands if we are in acceptance of following this Supreme BEings' plan? Are we accomplices to murder?

Quote:

Sparkyluv writes: God doesn't ask for animal sacrifices anymore because Jesus (The Lamb of God) was the final blood sacrifice.

If Jesus was to be the final sacrifice, why couldn’t Jesus be the (first) only sacrifice?

Kcnorwood · #5 10-09-2006, 03:35 PM

This is is plan?

God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. Thessalonians

Or is it this one?

God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature Hebrews
9-13-14 22

I guess he did change his plan. Notice how this is the NT NOT the OT

dawny0826 · #6 10-09-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkyluv

John 8:1-11 <----- That's why we don't stone people anyone anymore. The Law of Moses was...kind of reshaped when Jesus came. God never changed his plan or his will. Jesus coming and reshaping everything was apart of his whole plan.

God doesn't ask for animal sacrifices anymore because Jesus (The Lamb of God) was the final blood sacrifice.

I concur.

Many (not all, of course) God fearing individuals live underneath a different law. I live underneath the law as established through Jesus Christ.

Random · #7 10-09-2006, 04:10 PM

Jesus reformed most of the primitive barbaric aspects extant in Jewish laws and custom @ the time, replacing the dogmatic judgement of mortals with His religion of Love and Forgiveness. The apostles later debated whether adherence to Mosaic Law, where stonings and such things were constitutionalised, should be required of Christians but eventually decided against it. This bridged the chasm over time to the current cultural context which does not even remotely resemble the ancient Judaic one. This, obviously, is a good thing.

sparkyluv · #8 10-09-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardero

If you reread the thread To Kill Or Not To Kill one of the points in God’s plan is the written commandment that God gave to the Israelites that "thou shall not kiil/murder" yet it was murder that was encouraged and perpetrated throughout this whole plan. Could God have found another way to implement this plan? Are we still obliged to this particular commandment or has that been reshaped too? Are you comfortable about the way that God’s plan has unfolded? Is there anyway that God could have planned more carefully so that many people did not have to be killed or murdered? Do we have blood on our hands if we are in acceptance of following this Supreme BEings' plan? Are we accomplices to murder?

If Jesus was to be the final sacrifice, why couldn’t Jesus be the (first) only sacrifice?

God's plan was/is perfect from the beginning. God did everything he did for a specific purpose. People died. We brought death into the world when we brought sin into the world. That's our deserving downfall.

God "introduced" Jesus to the world when he did for a reason. It was apart of God's perfect plan that Jesus come when he did and how he did. It wasn't apart of God's plan for Jesus to be the first sacrifice. Jesus came because there was seperation between man and God and he came because we didn't know God and God wants us to know him. Jesus came to shed light on who the Father is. God wanted his people to be completely reconciled to Him. Jesus came not only to save us from our sins, but to also introduce us to a relationship with God.

Read the Sermon on the Mount. The Ten Commandments still and always will apply, but there is also a spiritual aspect to them. It's not just actions.

We can come up with thousands of ways to reshape the OT, but it is what is. What's done has been done. The important thing is this: Jesus came like God and the prophets said he would. God does not make sense to me. I will never understand his ways, but I truly with all my heart believe that he has a perfect plan and that he does good for those who love him. God is not a murderer. My life is his. He created me, knit me in my mother's womb. If he wants to take me away, however he chooses, then he has that devine right.

I read the examples you posted in the other thread an a lot of them were either taken (1) out of context or (2) about animals. I was forcussing on your questions at hand which can be answered without referring to the other thread.

JMoum04 · #9 10-09-2006, 08:06 PM

I don't see why the concept is so far out there. I'm sure God wouldn't command us to do things when we weren't yet capable of them. Just like a good parent or teacher is able to know and understand what their children know and are capable of and treat them accordingly, so does God. After all, He is the biggest daddy of them all.

I'll see if I can't find some Baha'i writings on this issue, cause I know they're out there.